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Dovetail Games Presentation @ FlightSimCon 2016

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Thank you for the video

Well, i`m excited and in doubt equally.

I understand and appreciate the intentions and goals.

 

Then i look what they made with Flight School and can`t match it with what he said.

I don`t know how to express it.

For me it is simple as that: Give me a few weeks , FSX or P3D, freeware and payware addons and i will build you a better Flight School than DTGFS is now. I`ve done that years ago when i was active in FSX, more or less :P - In terms of graphic, functionality and educational objective, not technology.

I tweaked the hell out of it, installed more than 100GB of add-ons and it looked superb and was an awesome experience. But it was long and hard work to get it working. And one wrong click, wrong dash in the cfg, or add-on and everything was screwed up.

 

DTG: Just put together all the good things the community (and companies) developed over the years and convert to new technologies. Finished :wink:

I know it`s not that easy, but i fear you missed the course slightly.

 

Anyway we have to wait and see. Maybe it will blow my mind.

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They are playing with their reputation on the Flight Simulator in winter. There we shall really see if they did their homework or not.

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Thanks for posting the video, it's nice to get more background as well as some sense of the roadmap.

 

For the DTG Flight Sim, I hope they recognize they can't build everything themselves and concentrate on making a great platform, like FSX/P3D, but with better support for great weather and ATC simulation so the 3PD products don't need to resort to hacks and kludges to work around sim limitations, and I hope they can incorporate some of the improvements made in MS Flight since they also have that code.

 

Good to know they will continue to update the built-in nav data as well.

 

I agree that with flight school they could have built the content on FSX/P3D, but that seems pointless. FSX is a dead platform, and P3D is not on Steam and likely never will be. Makes more sense to get the sim platform they are working on through some development cycles and start getting community inputs.

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For me it is simple as that: Give me a few weeks , FSX or P3D, freeware and payware addons and i will build you a better Flight School than DTGFS is now.

 

You don't need a few weeks, just go to the learning center in FSX and there are a flight lessen system,that is as good or better then what DTGFS has now.

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Thanks for the link! I thought the most interesting part of the video was during the Q&A, when one of the attendees had some things to say about the focus on progressing through tiers of pilot license upgrades. It's good to hear that this isn't forced (although the product would bomb if it was), but the audience member said that most people who have been flying sims for a long time, get their pleasure from mastering the art of flying, the systems, etc. If those are deep enough that's all we need. I'm definitely in that camp. 

 

I have a feeling, based on this creative director's focus on bringing in newcomers and giving people "something to do" with the training and upgrades -- which is perfectly understandable, given his personal history and the way rankings work in racing sims -- that DTG may be trying to avoid direct comparison with other sims by focusing on these aspects. At least for the initial release and probably the following year. They won't have many aircraft at first, and it will take time for 3rd parties to develop add-ons. So why not continue the focus on training, so at least it's one way that DTG Flight Sim will be different from what's out there now? They already have an investment in the programming for that with Flight School. 

 

Again, that's just a wild guess... but offering just a small stable of planes with additional training modules and a mini-game about license upgrades through CPL and ATPL would be a smart way to deflect criticism for limited content in the initial release, compared to FSX/P3D/X-Plane (with all their add-ons).

 

I wish them luck, whatever they end up doing. We could use another serious competitor in this market, even if it takes them a year or two to get there.

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I could care less about progressing through the pilot licenses. Like has already been stated, a solid and expandable PLATFORM is what is needed. I get the feeling they are trying to reinvent the wheel here with all this "vision" stuff. Hang around here long enough and you will see what the people want. I think most would agree, we want a graphically beautiful sim, with the ability to have as many in depth systems as we please...or none at all. I guess, all in all, having someone at least trying to take the simming community to the next level is better than none. In the mean time, I'll just sit back and watch what happens. I haven't bought flight school, but just by watching the videos on youtube I know it's not for me, both in graphics and "fly-ability". I'd rather spend my $15 on cheap case of beer and spend my evening in the back yard playing my guitar around the fire.

 

I wish them luck.

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Hang around here long enough and you will see what the people want. I think most would agree, we want a graphically beautiful sim, with the ability to have as many in depth systems as we please...or none at all.

 

I agree, I'm not looking for virtual pilot licenses either. I already have my flight sim role-playing needs satisfied in the FSEconomy game.

 

So what will it take me to really get excited about DTG Flight Sim? Well, it has to be better than X-Plane is now, or my other options with FSX/P3D and all the add-ons. That's a heavy lift for a new flight sim on the market, but maybe they can pull it off. I have money to spend, if they can do it. Like everyone else here, I'm watching and waiting.

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When Steven Hood (the Creative Director in the Flightsimcon video) was appointed by Dovetail, my hopes for the promised new flight sim on the block nosedived.

 

As some of you may be aware, he was previously with Codemasters' F1 franchise and promised us race sim fans the earth in much the same way as he's doing now. However, if you analyse what he says in this talk, in actual fact he says very little of much substance at all - essentially it's a wishlist of vaguely outlined attributes. Again a total similarity with how he tried to "engage", as he would put it, with the race sim community, who I can assure you have nothing good to say about him, or the arcade games that the Codies F1 titles have always been. There were all kinds of "sim" promises made when that title was first in development, with Hood very much in the limelight, something he seems to relish. Sadly, the substance of the titles he has worked on has been very lacking in the realism stakes. So why should this change now?

The conclusion many of us reached in the race sim world was that Hood doesn't really understand what an out and out sim is, as he is clearly a somewhat commercial animal, always with an eye on the biggest possible audience and "accessibility" which in financial terms equals dumbing something down to the lowest common denominator for maximum sales. When you think about it, that never applied to Flight Simulator, as it was essentially a flagship vanity project, encouraged by Bill Gates (and quickly and unceremoniously abandoned very soon after he relinquished day to day control of Microsoft).

 

Everyone deserves a second chance, of course, but has Hood really changed his spots....

 

Anyone who remembers the disastrous launch of F1 2010, the first in the Codemasters Formula One series, will already be fearing the worst.

 

What was most concerning about this presentation was how little there was to show us all, considering the launch is just a few months away - basically nothing at all.

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Everyone deserves a second chance, of course, but has Hood really changed his spots....

 

Anyone who remembers the disastrous launch of F1 2010, the first in the Codemasters Formula One series, will already be fearing the worst.

 

Seems that majority of users would disagree with your assessment with 43 positive "Critic" reviews, 3 mixed, and 0 negative. Even the cynical user reviews are scoring it at a 7.8:

 

http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/f1-2010

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I really wish for Aerofly FS2...

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He reminds me of "Del Trotter", "Del Boy", the dubious market salesman in the old British Series "Only Fools and Horses"....and has the same Londoner accent! Jokes aside, I respect any developer who tries to move our beloved hobby to new heights.....

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I really wish for Aerofly FS2...

+1

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A very political presentation! Lots of promises and platitudes and the release product "Flight School" doesn't cut the mustard either. Bot the flight training in FSX, FS9 and aerofly 2 are better. Aerofly 2 gives you a rating so that you know you need to practice and improve. Dovetail are beginners in an already established and crowded market. When they release their flight simmulator if it doesn't blow the competition away then it's best that it is quietly dropped.

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For the DTG Flight Sim, I hope they recognize they can't build everything themselves and concentrate on making a great platform, like FSX/P3D, but with better support for great weather and ATC simulation so the 3PD products don't need to resort to hacks and kludges to work around sim limitations, and I hope they can incorporate some of the improvements made in MS Flight since they also have that code.

 

I hope Dovetail listen - and understand what is being communicated:

 

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I have yet to touch DTG Flight School, mainly because I've been using other sims.  I feel like DTG is late to the party.  Since so much has been established already, what does DTG have to offer that hasn't already been experienced or seen?  Sure, they're moving towards 64-bit, but X-Plane already got the jump on that.  I don't know, i guess I'm waiting for the proverbial train to crash when their full flight sim emerges.  From what I have taken from what was said in the video, there is an attitude of "I can do this better", but how much better does it need to be?  He says that DTG listens, but the proof will be in the pudding when the time comes.  Flight School is out, with mixed reactions, and I've seen people state things similar to what I have been thinking: "Is this what flight simulator will be like?" or "they still have a lot more to do".  Criticisms like this are coming from those who are already established in the community.  The fanfare, teases and lead-ups to the release of Flight School, are probably a bit of a downfall to making it popular.  People had expectations, words around the campfire of what to expect and when those things didn't emerge, there was negativity.

 

All in all, I will remain cautious.  DTG has big dreams, but a long road to travel.  Having to coordinate their ideas, thoughts, design, development with 3rd party developers has to be a headache, not to mention trying to please the community.  While they have always been of the mind that FS was intended for those who have little to know prior flight sim experience, they are treading into heavily travelled waters by the rest of the user base.  There's well established competition right now and they need to really bring in something major to emerge on top.

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OK...I am not a fan of this project if it can even be called a project. I can not believe that this guy showed up at a flight sim show and gave a presentation on something that does not even exist. Flight School is nothing more than a rehash of older content from FSX. I am actually wondering why MS has not brought a legal action for stealing their content. Now the new Flight Sim that we all talk about. At this point it appears to be Vaporware. I watched the entire hour of dribble about no knowledge of flight skills, no knowledge of flight sim design, no knowledge of weather, and then the best shot he had was that he has one....that's 1 friend  that is excited about flight school. He is going to make up for these short cummings by "finding the magic" that is if he can get over his fear of flying. I was expecting at the end of this mess to hear "The operators are standing by to sign up now. But Wait; call in the next 4 minutes and we will double your order for the new flight sim ( that's two complete orders of vaporware for the price of one!) that we are thinking about one day maybe. Just pay additional shipping and handling. Please allow 8 to 12 years for delivery. Offer may not be valid where sane thinking people live.

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I would say it is less than Vaporware.. at best it is a stated intention to develop something.

 

When he says that they have already added the "technology" and now they are just trying to figure out what level of "Magic" they need to add to make this a winner,  I cannot help wondering what blind alleys LM must be going down, trying to add "technology" to make P3D run smoothly and look great..

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OK...I am not a fan of this project if it can even be called a project. I can not believe that this guy showed up at a flight sim show and gave a presentation on something that does not even exist. Flight School is nothing more than a rehash of older content from FSX. I am actually wondering why MS has not brought a legal action for stealing their content. Now the new Flight Sim that we all talk about. At this point it appears to be Vaporware. I watched the entire hour of dribble about no knowledge of flight skills, no knowledge of flight sim design, no knowledge of weather, and then the best shot he had was that he has one....that's 1 friend  that is excited about flight school. He is going to make up for these short cummings by "finding the magic" that is if he can get over his fear of flying. I was expecting at the end of this mess to hear "The operators are standing by to sign up now. But Wait; call in the next 4 minutes and we will double your order for the new flight sim ( that's two complete orders of vaporware for the price of one!) that we are thinking about one day maybe. Just pay additional shipping and handling. Please allow 8 to 12 years for delivery. Offer may not be valid where sane thinking people live.

 

Microsoft probably isnt suing them because they bought the license for their sims and technology from them lol. And do you think all the guys at ACES, ORBX, etc all fly planes? Do you think half of the devs at Lockheed fly? Hell, 70% of this "virtual aviation enthisiast" community hasn't even flown a real plane. 

 

I personally will wait to see what the flight simulator offers before I pass any judgments. But maybe thats just me being logical. 

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I personally will wait to see what the flight simulator offers before I pass any judgments. But maybe thats just me being logical. 

LOL 70% eh?? Is that a solid number from a survey that you are thinking about doing some time in the future? I never saw thoses results published and I have been around since Commador 64 and Sub Logic days...just like the one that was on display at the Simcon. I don't think it is all that logical to use a made up number to prove how logical you are. So when you do decide to do the survey sometime in the future put me down for yes....I has ever flown a real plane  (maybe you meant to say "have never") Logicaly speaking of course!!

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Seems that majority of users would disagree with your assessment with 43 positive "Critic" reviews, 3 mixed, and 0 negative. Even the cynical user reviews are scoring it at a 7.8:

 

http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/f1-2010

 

Well that's where I think you've totally missed my point. Yes, the F1 titles were very popular with console gamers and the like, but profoundly, and I do mean profoundly, unpopular with hardcore simmers. The difference, if you will, between a game and sim. That's where the concern stems from.

 

But, as I've already stated, the guy deserves a second chance. However, I for one will be sitting on the fence until the verdict is out.

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 Hell, 70% of this "virtual aviation enthisiast" community hasn't even flown a real plane. 

 

 

68. 35675152% actually!

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And do you think all the guys at ACES, ORBX, etc all fly planes? Do you think half of the devs at Lockheed fly? Hell, 70% of this "virtual aviation enthisiast" community hasn't even flown a real plane. 

 

It's not so much whether someone has a pilot's license. I do think it's valid to wonder whether someone totally new to the world of aviation, and who in fact has had to overcome a fear of flying in small GA planes, is the right person to be Creative Director for a brand new, full-featured flight sim. I'm keeping an open mind, but I also think it may be no coincidence that the new DTG flight sim will include a logging feature that only kicks in when you've done training lessons. It's an "outside in" approach, which is probably good from the marketing perspective of attracting newbies to flight sims. The problem is that us old-timer are looking for more of an "inside out" approach, starting with the deeper aspects of simulation. 

 

Of course, having an experienced pilot at the helm of a sim design team isn't always a guarantee that the sim community gets what it wants either. Look at X-Plane... basically it's Austin's personal hobby sim, so he can practice procedures when he's not flying his own plane (that's an exaggeration, but I think there's some truth in it). We get the features Austin cares about, like better turboprop modeling now that he owns a private plane of that type. 

 

Still, it's probably better than having the feature list driven purely by a marketing dept. I don't think we'd have things in X-Plane like in-flight icing or bird strikes if it wasn't something a real pilot understood as a hazard. Now if Austin would just do a little more flying in crappy weather...

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Of course the number of aviation enthusiasts is high.  Conduct a survey of truckers vs enthusiasts for EuroTruck Simulator or train engineers for Train Simulator 2016?  How many in the transportation field, who do it for a living, want to immediately come home and simulate what they do in real life as often as an enthusiast?  Me being on the enthusiast side of things, I want to learn it out of curiosity, despite that deep ache to actually fly, but I don't have the bucks to own my own plane.  Having a simulator helps to learn and have fun, without that pesky problem of crashing and liability.

 

DTG Flight School is an affordable first step for young folks who have the desire to learn, to do so to a point where if they want to stick with it, then they can pursue the real life avenue.  The way I see it, DTG is trying to corner the transportation sim market, or at least, boost their portfolio.  I say if they have the time, funds and resources to do it, then let them.  Anyone else who has been in the sim world long enough knows what to use right now and as I said before, if DTG comes up with something revolutionary, then maybe I'll take a second look.

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