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Coolieboy

Unrealistic 787 Wing Flex...on PMDG 777 + Main Landing Gear Does Not Lift On Rotate

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Excuse the long title. First off, when a B777-300/ER takes off, the main gear rises as the plane rotates in order to assist in ground clearance. This is not modelled in the PMDG version. Has anyone raised this issue before?

 

Anyways... 

 

I search high and low for topics about this and found JUST ONE. I don't know what shocks me more. The fact that the wings of the PMDG 777 bends as much as a 787 IRL under operational load during landing or that this has never been a concern/issue/observation of the FSX/PMDG community. I mean, you'd be excused for thinking this was a forum about any old game and not a simulator that features one of the greatest addons ever. The way that most experienced simmers overlook issues with the modelling of some of the most realistic and most expensive addons for FSX and even debate what the eyes can clearly see is astonishing. Surely myself and planemaddan aren't the only two to notice this quite distracting issue.

 

Here is a link to the only thread by planemaddan mentioning this and pay close attention to the inaccurate excuses and dismissive attitude for something that really exists .  http://www.avsim.com/topic/444293-how-true-is-the-wing-flex/

 

Those of you who have the PMDG 777, please take the time to find pictures of B77L's and W's landing after LH and ULH flights. Remember that these a/c DO in fact takeoff at MTOW very often due to a combination of cargo, pax and fuel for the flights ranging +4000nm. Note the airline, where it's flying from and going, then replicate this flight in FSX as I have done.  Look at 777L's and W's as they approach IRL. Look at how much or should I say, the lack of wing flex on approach. Now look at your PMDG's wing flex as you come in to land. NOW DO YOU NOTICE SOMETHING WRONG? Or should we just be grateful and not bring issues like this to light because the product is close to perfection?

 

Let me explain myself and tone guys. I am just frustrated and I mean no offence to anyone. Realism means everything to me when it comes to FSX and simulators in general. The purpose is to immerse oneself. So it baffles me as to how some can say such things in response like, 

 

"It is realistic, you may have seen a lot of flex because you had a small amount of fuel in the wings."

Mind you, that is not the reason but thankfully, Steve Dra corrected him. Unfortunately, Steve Dra also said the following;

 

"The wingflex is quite accurate planemaddan, just google 777 wingflex and click the "Images" link.  You'd be amazed how much they flex when she's heavy (and/or in turbulence).  It looks almost unnatural, but they actually do flex over the fuse when she's at MTOW and rotating for liftoff.  There is a really good pic of a Delta 777 in that configuration.  We don't link or post Airliners.net photos here or I'd just post it for you to see.  :wink:" 

 

To finish off this RANT, I have no faith that this would be fixed or that the community would ask for a patch that corrects the wing issue. I pretty much expect to get replies telling me that it is not a big deal and that everything else is fine so who cares. Well I care lol.

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Since this is your first post and probably didn't know the rules, you're required to sign your posts with your first and last name or put it in your signature like I have.

 

Second, your last paragraph probably correctly sums up the results you'll get of your post.

 

Personally I don't care since I fly inside the plane and don't use spot view very often.

 

Secondly I accept the fact that nothing is perfect in a desk top sim that costs a fraction of a professional sim. There are always going to be things here and there with planes and scenery that are not perfect.

 

The key to enjoying simming is to be happy with what we have rather than be upset with what is not perfect. Once you do that, the little things that are not perfect won't bother you much anymore and you'll be much happier flying the sim.

 

As the saying goes, happiness is wanting what you have rather than having what you want.

 

Probably not what you wanted to here but hopefully you won't get flamed to much before the topic is locked.

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First off, when a B777-300/ER takes off, the main gear rises as the plane rotates in order to assist in ground clearance. This is not modelled in the PMDG version. Has anyone raised this issue before?

 

First off. No it doesn't. The cantilevered gear does not rise off, it simply locks and does not allow for extra rotation in an effort to add a little extra protection against tail strikes. This is, in fact, actually modeled.

 

Second, the wing flex is modeled correctly. If you believe it is incorrect bring facts and evidence.

 

Welcome to the forum. Full names are required to be placed in your posts. This helps ensure that forum discussions are a bit more civil. Something decidedly lacking in your rant...er...post...which is backed up by so much evidence that I'm quite compelled to go rouse up the team to fix the non-issues that you've dragged up out of nowhere.

 

Well I care lol

 

You care about placing your own expectations of realism, over...actual realism?

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You care about placing your own expectations of realism, over...actual realism?

 

Game, set, match. 

 

Moving on. 

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From my more or less ignorant point of view, the wing flex is ok.

 

The wings are actually prestressed (I hope this is the correct translation of vorgespannt) so that their natural (non-stressed) position is somewhere in between the hanging (ground) position and the lifted (air) position. Correct me please if I'm wrong.

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Since this is your first post and probably didn't know the rules, you're required to sign your posts with your first and last name or put it in your signature like I have.

 

Second, your last paragraph probably correctly sums up the results you'll get of your post.

 

Personally I don't care since I fly inside the plane and don't use spot view very often.

 

Secondly I accept the fact that nothing is perfect in a desk top sim that costs a fraction of a professional sim. There are always going to be things here and there with planes and scenery that are not perfect.

 

The key to enjoying simming is to be happy with what we have rather than be upset with what is not perfect. Once you do that, the little things that are not perfect won't bother you much anymore and you'll be much happier flying the sim.

 

As the saying goes, happiness is wanting what you have rather than having what you want.

 

Probably not what you wanted to here but hopefully you won't get flamed to much before the topic is locked.

 

I appreciate you taking the time to respond and I'm taking what you said onboard. It was a rant but I really do enjoy the PMDG 777 and cannot wait for the -200ER (fingers cross after the B747-400 V2 is complete). 

 

I think perhaps it's me being spoilt while not understanding the efforts that went behind creating the model we have but I do acknowledge it is indeed near to perfection. Just wish the wing flex was on point too.

 

Cheers

 

Oh and for my next post I will do that signature thing. I have no idea how to but will look it up once I have more time for AVSIM.

S3mZrOQ.jpg

 

I'm no expert but it looks pretty flexed to me.

I said landing not takeoff ;)

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Oh and for my next post I will do that signature thing. I have no idea how to but will look it up once I have more time for AVSIM.

Set it up so that is done automatically. Try this - click on your user name in upper right corner, click on My Profile, click on Edit My Profile, click on Signature, in Edit Signature enter your first and last name, click save and your name will be on all of your posts.

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Kyle answered your questions. You came and insisted that things were wrong with the aircraft. He pointed out what wasn't. You are taking offense to being corrected. You ended the post with.....

 

To finish off this RANT, I have no faith that this would be fixed or that the community would ask for a patch that corrects the wing issue. I pretty much expect to get replies telling me that it is not a big deal and that everything else is fine so who cares. Well I care lol.

 

So you are saying the company won't fix a problem that doesn't exist that you are complaining about. If that wasn't exactly respectful maybe you throwing anyone that disagrees under the bus by saying you pretty much expect other forum members to tell you everything is fine or no big deal. Does that seem friendly?

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Don't feed the troll, Richie. The cantilevered MLG is even mentioned and briefly described in the introduction manual (pp. 174f).

 

Oliver Märtens (Maertens)

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Quite frankly, I don't see anything wrong with Kyle's response... seemed professional to me - I don't really know what it was, that stroke you as unprofessional or condescending... 

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5EIqX2L.jpg

 

I was just out at LAX spotting last Friday and thought I'd re-create this pic I took in FSX.

 

Leon, would you mind explaining to us how distractingly unrealistic the wing flex is again?

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5EIqX2L.jpg

 

I was just out at LAX spotting last Friday and thought I'd re-create this pic I took in FSX.

 

Leon, would you mind explaining to us how distractingly unrealistic the wing flex is again?

 

Nice comparisson! 

Can't find anything wrong with the wing-flex - seems PMDG got it spot-on... 

 

If I HAVE to say something in this regard, I would say that PMDGs 777 don't bend enough - although that could be (and quite possibly is) the angle is a little bit different... 

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5EIqX2L.jpg

 

I was just out at LAX spotting last Friday and thought I'd re-create this pic I took in FSX.

 

Leon, would you mind explaining to us how distractingly unrealistic the wing flex is again?

 

Even though the OP's argument is not right, you really can't re-create a flight unless you have the same data like weights. - David Lee

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I was just out at LAX spotting last Friday and thought I'd re-create this pic I took in FSX.

So you said this is a recreation of the flight when the location of clouds are so incredibly obviously incorrect?

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Even though the OP's argument is not right, you really can't re-create a flight unless you have the same data like weights. - David Lee

 

Well, you can guesstimate it based on fuel rules and how airlines load up planes like the 77W for long haul flights. At any rate OP said to take a long haul flight and compare it to the PMDG 777 to see how mind-blowingly bad the wing flex was on landing. So I did!

 

So you said this is a recreation of the flight when the location of clouds are so incredibly obviously incorrect?

 

Wow! What an oversight on my part! I re-ran my simulation and turns out OP is right:

bird%20flu.gif

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Wow! What an oversight on my part! I re-ran my simulation and turns out OP is right:

 

Thanks for settling it once and for all!    I never realized before that the T7 actually flies by flapping its wings.

 

Haven't laughed this hard for awhile.

 

Mike

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...... thought I'd re-create this pic I took in FSX....

 

 

The real one appears to be using less flap that the sim one :)  (Trailing edge device, not literally wing flap!)

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First off. No it doesn't. The cantilevered gear does not rise off, it simply locks and does not allow for extra rotation in an effort to add a little extra protection against tail strikes. This is, in fact, actually modeled.

Second, the wing flex is modeled correctly. If you believe it is incorrect bring facts and evidence.

Welcome to the forum. Full names are required to be placed in your posts. This helps ensure that forum discussions are a bit more civil. Something decidedly lacking in your rant...er...post...which is backed up by so much evidence that I'm quite compelled to go rouse up the team to fix the non-issues that you've dragged up out of nowhere.

 

You care about placing your own expectations of realism, over...actual realism?

Out of curiosity, how does the protection in the landing gear work to prevent an over rotation situation?

 

I can't picture how it would prevent it. Anyeho, carry on!

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