Zimmerbz

Future of photoreal

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Does anyone know if there are any future plans for photoreal scenery in P3d that looks similar to the ortho stuff?  I️ know mega scenery is out there but that doesn’t look good.  Just wondering what the future holds. Thanks. 

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Ortho stuff?  Sorry for my ignorance, photo scenery is based on aerial photography so ortho scenery is base on orthographic projection charts? Please explain.

As far as I am concerned the future is Orbx.  The downside to photo scenery, I presume because I'm not a big consumer, is lack of seasons?  I think the future is something like openLC where the fixed suite of landclass tiles is replaced with a very large set of tiles better matched to the actual scenery, overlaid by regions with extensive custom textures and autogen and scenery objects.  Day/night and season differences are very robust.

 

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20 minutes ago, Zimmerbz said:

Does anyone know if there are any future plans for photoreal scenery in P3d that looks similar to the ortho stuff?  I️ know mega scenery is out there but that doesn’t look good.  Just wondering what the future holds. Thanks. 

Orbx announced that their next regon - Netherlands - will be completely photoreal. They also announced that they want to add full photoreal coverage to their PNW and are looking for other suitable regions in the US.

So I guess that will be the future of photoreal scenery. I agree with you that Megascenery, even if enhanced with Nuvecta Landscapes, leaves a lot to be desired.

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Future is already here in France with FranceVFR sceneries:

  • Reworked photo scenery 1m or 0.5 m/pixel
  • Detailed water mask for coast and lakes
  • Reworked AFCADs and airports
  • Full custom vegetation and building autogen cover
  • 3D Automation technology for all complex building shapes
  • 64 bits SDK build for P3Dv4 and above

 

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France vfr open the way with 3DA and I suppose that this way now interresting Orbx. Landclasse coverages as orbx sceneries do, take very less disk spaces vs photosceneries but are rapidely very repetitive. The problem of landclasses is the poor choice decided by fsx, 11 years ago and the minimum square in the sim that make unreal aeras with strange cuts, particulary visible between villages and green vegetations.

The good way shall be a mix of the two technics, because the full coverage of the world in photorealscenneries is to heavy !

 

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1 hour ago, downscc said:

Ortho stuff?  Sorry for my ignorance, photo scenery is based on aerial photography so ortho scenery is base on orthographic projection charts? Please explain.

Dan,

He’s referring to the program that is available for X-Plane that lets users easily make photoreal ground textures and incorporate autogen into them. Kind of like SBuilderX that we use to create photoreal scenery for FSX or P3D.

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France VFR is the kind of thing that I would like to see everywhere. Lack of seasonal variations is not really an issue for me, as I tend to fly in Spring/Summer the entire time. I also agree that MegaScenery Earth leaves a lot to be desired. The ME Ireland package (which I purchased in the hope that I could use the Northern Ireland part with my PlayHorizon Republic of Ireland photoscenery) is very poor in the area that I was interested in. No watermasking whatsoever for Lough Neagh, extremely poor quality textures/islands/coastline in Strangford Lough, and visible default scenery along coastlines (including an ugly section in Belfast Harbour). Pathetic :angry:

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Is Photoreal scenery 'ok' now? I've always assumed that it was a bit of a no-no in ESP. Something about the sim loading *all* the photoreal scenery you have installed regardless of where you're actually flying? is this still the case in v4?

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15 minutes ago, Ebs said:

Is Photoreal scenery 'ok' now?

Yes and no, depend of creators. Personnaly, I directly suspect editors in p3d that show pics of night sceneries or pics at very high altitudes where you don't know if it is only statelite pictures of idem with autogens well placed.

Xp have two softwares to do it your self, cactus521 (John) on "avsim screenshots gallery" show this process very well on America (like his work).

If it is specific sceneries as volcans of typical regions, first choice is photosceneries. For more common regions, orbx sceneries do well the job.

 

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5 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

Orbx announced that their next regon - Netherlands - will be completely photoreal. They also announced that they want to add full photoreal coverage to their PNW and are looking for other suitable regions in the US.

So I guess that will be the future of photoreal scenery. I agree with you that Megascenery, even if enhanced with Nuvecta Landscapes, leaves a lot to be desired.

FTX Netherland will also come with 5 seasons and buildings will be shaped to match the footprint in the textures. I think it may become a milestone. Alpha screenshots are looking very good already. 

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Aerial imagery can be so expensive in some areas that it's unlikely it will be the main medium of scenery for some time (The US and NZ are two countries where free legal orthos can be found). Adding to that, orthos have burnt in lighting, and getting seasonal differences is hard. And of course, the disk space required to have orthos is still too much.

Adding accurate autogen on top is another huge challenge. For example, to purchase accurate topo data for all of France would cost near to the millions of Euros, and FranceVFR would seem to have some sort of licensing deal with IGN France and their regions are very expensive. If you saw how much the detailed topographic data and orthos cost for the entire UK, it would make buying oneself a real 777 a cheaper option :biggrin:

For the US, and many other areas, there simply isn't much in the way of good consistent data that can be used for very detailed scenery. So I fear we are some way off before it becomes the norm.

 

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3 hours ago, GSalden said:

Posted before : I can see my house ...

B757%20over%20Gchem.jpg

What are you using for that?  It looks good.  

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7 hours ago, tonywob said:

Aerial imagery can be so expensive in some areas that it's unlikely it will be the main medium of scenery for some time (The US and NZ are two countries where free legal orthos can be found). Adding to that, orthos have burnt in lighting, and getting seasonal differences is hard. And of course, the disk space required to have orthos is still too much.

Adding accurate autogen on top is another huge challenge. For example, to purchase accurate topo data for all of France would cost near to the millions of Euros, and FranceVFR would seem to have some sort of licensing deal with IGN France and their regions are very expensive. If you saw how much the detailed topographic data and orthos cost for the entire UK, it would make buying oneself a real 777 a cheaper option :biggrin:

For the US, and many other areas, there simply isn't much in the way of good consistent data that can be used for very detailed scenery. So I fear we are some way off before it becomes the norm.

 

A FTX Region is also not cheap, so I prefer photoreal scenery + custom AG.

That is how I already fly for years now.

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4 hours ago, Zimmerbz said:

What are you using for that?  It looks good.  

NL2000 : freeware 

Photoreal scenery + AG + custom objects

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1 hour ago, GSalden said:

A FTX Region is also not cheap, so I prefer photoreal scenery + custom AG.

Actually, I'm referring to the cost for a company to license orthos as opposed to how much they cost for users to buy. ORBX have stated they would love to make a photoreal Norway (Imagine that :D), or the UK, but the costs are so prohibitively high that they sadly just can't. So landclass scenery is here to stay unless you know how to roll your own.

Fans of US orthos though are in luck. Since high quality imagery is actually in the public domain, anyone, including ORBX can make scenery for it. I'm really really looking forward to their photoreal PNW scenery, one of the best regions to fly no doubt.

 

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Imho the future will be :

- Fast IN connection

- DL the season dependent photo files from the LM server ( placed on your pc ) . 

- Only AG and objects in the cliënt install

- Addon airports can be bought or licensed for 1 time use

 

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Since photoreal scenery development has been my "life" for the past two years I'll chime in with my 2-cents.   Just like any  other flightsim scenery, photoreal can be as ever incredibly immersive and detailed as any of the top add-ons or can be very basic and lackluster.  It depends on the developer AND the available data and what simmer is content with.

The issue of creating seasons, at least for me, is not an issue.  It is the space required on the end-user's system.  Because every square mile (kilometer), is unique adding all five seasons can make the size upwards to five times!  Most users are not ready for those types of downloads or storing so I think developers concentrate of one season... summer or perhaps a summer and winter season.

I think for the USA one is looking at 12-15 TB for the entire USA.  Storage prices continue to drop.  I see Seagate has 8TB drives on sale for $179,99 USD so in theory one could have to drop $400 USD just to store the scenery.

To answer a poster above... yes, PR scenery will load even if you are not flying in that area however an easy solution is to only "check" on those areas you are flying through.  P3D, FSX, etc, will not load the scenery if it is checked OFF. 

I always ask myself will simmers even care if you add 3D detail to PR scenery?  I mean if you are flying over a remote desert area and pass over en entire town in a matter of seconds does it matter.  Maybe just releaseing massive areas with no 3D is good enough (think MegaSceenry).  I guess I will know once we release something (ha!).

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9 minutes ago, Clutch Cargo said:

I always ask myself will simmers even care if you add 3D detail to PR scenery?  I mean if you are flying over a remote desert area and pass over en entire town in a matter of seconds does it matter.  Maybe just releaseing massive areas with no 3D is good enough (think MegaSceenry).  I guess I will know once we release something (ha!).

I think 3D at least around the airports matters.  Over a desert that doesn't have much 3D even in real life or flying at altitude does not matter(obviously).  I've made my own photoreal scenery too and in some cases have used scenproc to add 3D around airports only.  I wish MegaScenery would do this or some developer anyway.  Create the photoreal for whole countries and then go back and add 3D within a 20nm radius of the airports(all or only the medium and larger maybe?) in the area.  To me, that would be the perfect combination.

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Obviously there's no GA/VFR flyer left over besides me.

Kind regards, Michael

 

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I fly orthoscenery 95% of the time. 

Megascenery v3 is pretty good.

Landclass - ugg, only if nothing else is available, Very fake. Bad!

usually, I just make my own orthoscenery, trees around airports are essential though, and IS3 is great for this. Also good to rework airports to match photoscenery.

Am brewing some NC smoky mountain scenery tonight, 12.5 cm per pixel, sweet. Storage space is cheapnthese days!

 

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19 hours ago, OzWhitey said:

Megascenery v3 is pretty good

Does Megascenery's water masking use the underlying photoreal water textures or do they completely remove them and you end up w/ "default" water?  From the images on their website, it looks like it does the latter which is the biggest reason why I haven't taken the plunge yet on any of their v3 stuff.

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22 hours ago, klamal said:

Does Megascenery's water masking use the underlying photoreal water textures or do they completely remove them and you end up w/ "default" water?  From the images on their website, it looks like it does the latter which is the biggest reason why I haven't taken the plunge yet on any of their v3 stuff.

The pics on the website are accurate, yes it's 'holes punched through the scenery', to show default water. 

I think it looks ok, when I make photoscenery I sometimes mask with an areaKML path from google earth (coast and deep water), that looks a bit better. I've actually been trying to learn more about blend masks for the last few days, haven't had much success yet!

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