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BMW969

P3D v4.5 FPS down

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In my case it is the Scenery Complexity Slider!

When higher then sparse, it has a dramatic impact (-30%) and is very dependent on the view direction. For sure, that was not the case with 4.4. where I could have this slider at max or one notch less in all situations.


- Harry J.

i7-7820X (@4.8 GHz), 32GB RAM (@3467) 2080Ti (3440x1440), SSD 500GB, (Win10x64),  SSDs 1+2 TB (P3Dv5.x + ORBX). FSGlobalNG (mesh), ORBX (Global+OLC, all FTX Regions, all TE products, many Airports), DDscenery (NY, CH, MIA), Airports (FT, FB, FSDT, AS); PMDG (737, 747, 777), MJC DQ400, RA Piston Duke, A2A C172. Weather ASP5. F1 GTN complete. AI Traffic: AIG OCI

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, simbol said:

Guys,

It is not shadows, I did lot's of tests with this and also @kevinfirth and the results were negative. 

My gut feeling tells me this is something to do with autogen or buildings..

Regards,
S.

Hmm, well hopefully they get it figured out, I haven't tried messing with Autogen or scenery complexity, only thing i noticed was it was much smoother without clouds or weather loaded.


UPS123.png

 

 

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3 hours ago, rfelger said:

All, from what I'm reading over at LM forums, there may be an issue with the cloud shadows

But I see a 20%+ drop and i have all shadows off.

Pete

 


Win10: 2004 19041.264
CPU: 9900KS at 5.5GHz
Memory: 32Gb at 3900 MHz.
GPU:  RTX 24Gb Titan
2 x 2160p projectors at 30Hz onto 200 FOV curved screen

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What I have found given I have all Orbx Global and Regional packages is that the issue seems to be object call related.

4.4 for me (30hz 4K monitor, i7-6700K, GTX1080ti, 32GB RAM, Windows 10) was smooth in the vast majority of situations, even Aerosoft EGLL with the FSLabs A320.

With 4.5 the best I can get in the same scenario is 19FPS which is unusable given it is so far below the 30hz monitor refresh rate.

What I have discovered is unticking the FTX Scenery folder for the region (leaving the 3 other folders for the region active), the issue disappears.

Thus that narrowed down the issue.

I then took all the .bgl’s out of the FTX Scenery folder, reactivated it and then added the files in bit by bit.

What I found is if I remove the individual airport object files (in FTX England there was 181 XXXX.object.bgl files where XXXX is the aerodrome i.e. EGBD) then the FPS are back to 4.4 levels. It is only the airport object file, not the other (two) files... your airport is still there, it just does not have the custom objects.

This issue seems only to exist using FTX England, the two Germany’s and Southern California and removing their XXXX.object.bgl files (to a safe place) eliminates the issue.

If you have UK2000 EGKK and FTX England, start up at stand 559 in the PMDG 737 or FSLabs A329/320 and you won’t get greater than 19FPS in the VC but if you scan right in the VC (away from the terminal, looking south, FPS return to normal).

Now remove the files to a safe place and repeat, there is no problem, so my  hint as a place to look is the object draw. Something changed from 4.4 to 4.5.

Regards,

Mark

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4 hours ago, mwa05 said:

What I have found given I have all Orbx Global and Regional packages is that the issue seems to be object call related.

Do you guys read the entire topic AND understand it?

Please stop adding new information related to ANY AddOn stuff! LM does not test your AddOn's and some clear reports show a decrease in performance with a VANILLA P3D installation!

Stop cluttering this topic and help them WITH A VANILLA P3D to nail it down. Only with a standard P3D, using a standard ACFT and a standard scenery, they will try to reproduce it.

Adding ORBX or FSL or HIFI or whatsoever Addon won't help anybody so please stop it!

(Please forgive the underlines and the capitals but reading carefully through the 8 pages of the topic, 90% of the reports are related to AddOns when @simbol and Rob and any other developer has begged you to test without addons!)

Edited by GEKtheReaper

Gerald K. - Germany

Core i7 4790 / ASUS H87-PRO / MSI GTX 970 / 16 Gb RAM Corsair Vengeance 1600 / 24" Full HD.

WIN 10 HOME 64 + P3D v4 + GEP3D + UTX Europe + FS Global Ultimate NG + ORBX Trees HD + ASP4 + ASCA/SF3D + ENVTEX + ENVSHADE + GSX + EZCA + (EnvForce).

"Flightstick" = X56 HOTAS RGB Logitech

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23 minutes ago, GEKtheReaper said:

Do you guys read the entire topic AND understand it?

Please stop adding new information related to ANY AddOn stuff! LM does not test your AddOn's and some clear reports show a decrease in performance with a VANILLA P3D installation!

Stop cluttering this topic and help them WITH A VANILLA P3D to nail it down. Only with a standard P3D, using a standard ACFT and a standard scenery, they will try to reproduce it.

Adding ORBX or FSL or HIFI or whatsoever Addon won't help anybody so please stop it!

(Please forgive the underlines and the capitals but reading carefully through the 8 pages of the topic, 90% of the reports are related to AddOns when @simbol and Rob and any other developer has begged you to test without addons!)

I’m not saying FTX / Orbx is the issue, only that it highlights the issue. My suggestion is that it is an object draw issue, that has come about in 4.5.

As Rob said, if you use 30hz refresh rate and moderate settings, you may not be aware there is an issue with default, which he has highlighted.

 

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26 minutes ago, GEKtheReaper said:

Adding ORBX or FSL or HIFI or whatsoever Addon won't help anybody so please stop it.

While it might be the most obvious thinking, your logic is plain wrong in regard of finding the bug/error. It is more than possible that an addon provokes or makes a potential bug more prominent and depending on your configuration, you might observe the FPS loss only when using a specific addon that triggers the bug. Means: ALL information is valuable that results in a FPS loss in v4.5, even if for the final solution, it has to work for those not using any addon, of course. Your post simply shows in a not very nice way that you have no idea about problem solving or addressing a root cause analysis.

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Greetings, Chris

Intel i7-8700K@5.0GHz, 2x16GB 3200MHz CL14 RAM, Gigabyte AORUS 1080Ti, Windows 10 Home 64bit, Prepar3D 4.5

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5 hours ago, mwa05 said:

What I have found given I have all Orbx Global and Regional packages is that the issue seems to be object call related.

4.4 for me (30hz 4K monitor, i7-6700K, GTX1080ti, 32GB RAM, Windows 10) was smooth in the vast majority of situations, even Aerosoft EGLL with the FSLabs A320.

With 4.5 the best I can get in the same scenario is 19FPS which is unusable given it is so far below the 30hz monitor refresh rate.

What I have discovered is unticking the FTX Scenery folder for the region (leaving the 3 other folders for the region active), the issue disappears.

Thus that narrowed down the issue.

I then took all the .bgl’s out of the FTX Scenery folder, reactivated it and then added the files in bit by bit.

What I found is if I remove the individual airport object files (in FTX England there was 181 XXXX.object.bgl files where XXXX is the aerodrome i.e. EGBD) then the FPS are back to 4.4 levels. It is only the airport object file, not the other (two) files... your airport is still there, it just does not have the custom objects.

This issue seems only to exist using FTX England, the two Germany’s and Southern California and removing their XXXX.object.bgl files (to a safe place) eliminates the issue.

If you have UK2000 EGKK and FTX England, start up at stand 559 in the PMDG 737 or FSLabs A329/320 and you won’t get greater than 19FPS in the VC but if you scan right in the VC (away from the terminal, looking south, FPS return to normal).

Now remove the files to a safe place and repeat, there is no problem, so my  hint as a place to look is the object draw. Something changed from 4.4 to 4.5.

Regards,

Mark

This corresponds to my findings. Except that I believe it is true for all high detailed scenery with many scenery objects being active.  As you stated, view direction plays an important role (even when you don't see them, but not being too far away). It is alo very pronounced in FTX PNW  (+FTX airports).


- Harry J.

i7-7820X (@4.8 GHz), 32GB RAM (@3467) 2080Ti (3440x1440), SSD 500GB, (Win10x64),  SSDs 1+2 TB (P3Dv5.x + ORBX). FSGlobalNG (mesh), ORBX (Global+OLC, all FTX Regions, all TE products, many Airports), DDscenery (NY, CH, MIA), Airports (FT, FB, FSDT, AS); PMDG (737, 747, 777), MJC DQ400, RA Piston Duke, A2A C172. Weather ASP5. F1 GTN complete. AI Traffic: AIG OCI

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, mwa05 said:

This issue seems only to exist using FTX England

Hmmm. I only have FTX Base and Global installed, none of the regional sceneries, and no Vector. I do have UK2000 sceneries too, but the 20%+ drop I get is everywhere, not just at or near airports.

I've not tried turning off FTX Europe.

Rob Ainscough is feeding exact figures to L-M and has isolated the Beta 4.5 version when it first started. So I think L-M should be able to work on it now.

Pete

 

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Win10: 2004 19041.264
CPU: 9900KS at 5.5GHz
Memory: 32Gb at 3900 MHz.
GPU:  RTX 24Gb Titan
2 x 2160p projectors at 30Hz onto 200 FOV curved screen

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51 minutes ago, AnkH said:

our post simply shows in a not very nice way that you have no idea about problem solving or addressing a root cause analysis.

Dear @AnkH,

have you read that LM requieres informatiions on vanilla setups? Have you read that the Devs assisting us all try to get test results in a vanilla P3D? Have you read that ALSO vanilla P3D's are affected by the FPS drop?

So why do you think it's a good idea to throw in much more variables into the bowl when the bowl itself is already broken?

Also can you please enumerate how many users have written in this topic and how many did actually compared v4.4 to v4.5 in a vanilla config?

Thank you!

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Gerald K. - Germany

Core i7 4790 / ASUS H87-PRO / MSI GTX 970 / 16 Gb RAM Corsair Vengeance 1600 / 24" Full HD.

WIN 10 HOME 64 + P3D v4 + GEP3D + UTX Europe + FS Global Ultimate NG + ORBX Trees HD + ASP4 + ASCA/SF3D + ENVTEX + ENVSHADE + GSX + EZCA + (EnvForce).

"Flightstick" = X56 HOTAS RGB Logitech

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1 hour ago, Pete Dowson said:

Rob Ainscough is feeding exact figures to L-M

It's so great to see Rob back in action! 👍

Edited by Rafal
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Rafal Haczek

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3 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

Hmmm. I only have FTX Base and Global installed, none of the regional sceneries, and no Vector. I do have UK2000 sceneries too, but the 20%+ drop I get is everywhere, not just at or near airports.

I've not tried turning off FTX Europe.

Rob Ainscough is feeding exact figures to L-M and has isolated the Beta 4.5 version when it first started. So I think L-M should be able to work on it now.

Pete

 

Good news re Rob Pete.

I think my mistake was not stipulating that my post here was a copy of my post on the LM forum, where Kayla had asked for more feedback to keep coming and where Rob had said those who use 30hz monitors and have medium settings may not know that there is an issue with default.

That was me as I use 30hz single monitor and have mid range settings and  as I had only flown 4.5 in Australia and obviously not in an area that was going to reveal this issue, so for me, 4.5 was good!

When Rob put out his findings using FTX Germany, I thought well I have that, I will try and I was now at 19FPS.

Thus my comment in context was I only have the (reported FPS reduction) issue (on my PC) with the following Regions. Oddly it does not occur that I could find in the other Regions and the common thing I found with those Regions that I did get the drop, was the ones I listed. Based on my experimenting with the object files, I found what I found, thus I reported to LM. In so far as I was aware, I was the first person reporting that I had found a repeatable cause and effect with a particular type of file (i.e I could get the FPS back by a particular action).

I’m pleased Rob isolated it in a Beta and hopefully we get a hotfix!

Cheers,

Mark

Edited by mwa05
Bad grammar
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Thank you Mark ( @mwa05 ) for the explanation. I was not aware that further progress has been made on the LM forums. I've just read this one and saw that realy nobody was trying to figure out the root cause of the problem.


Gerald K. - Germany

Core i7 4790 / ASUS H87-PRO / MSI GTX 970 / 16 Gb RAM Corsair Vengeance 1600 / 24" Full HD.

WIN 10 HOME 64 + P3D v4 + GEP3D + UTX Europe + FS Global Ultimate NG + ORBX Trees HD + ASP4 + ASCA/SF3D + ENVTEX + ENVSHADE + GSX + EZCA + (EnvForce).

"Flightstick" = X56 HOTAS RGB Logitech

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Gerald, I work in the problem solving of a big pharma company, and I can tell you one thing: ignoring inputs from whatever side just because you guess that it might be unrelated but that potentially have an effect, is the worst tThing you can do to perform a proper root cause analysis, as you most probably will miss things. Kayla from LM was intentionally asking for all kind of contribution, as she is aware about this fact. That is all I am saying.

As an example: if a memory leak is present in v4.5, this will be of course visible in plain default, but maybe only when using very high settings. However, a normal user with a normal rig might encounter the SAME issue due to the SAME memory leak, but in his case only when using the FSL Airbus as he generally uses lower settings not resulting in any issues when using the default simulator without addons. Means: the addon triggers an issue present in the default simulator without addons.

Now explain me again, why posting Infos about issues with a simulator that has addons installed should be of no use for LM?

It will anyway not be us finding the root cause. As such, we can not contribute directly in finding the root cause. But we can deliver as much information to LM as possible so that they are able to find the root cause. And this includes issues with addons that arose only after the switch to v4.5, even if this adds to complexity...

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Greetings, Chris

Intel i7-8700K@5.0GHz, 2x16GB 3200MHz CL14 RAM, Gigabyte AORUS 1080Ti, Windows 10 Home 64bit, Prepar3D 4.5

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I too noticed quite a loss in FPS and I got an i7 8700 and a 1080. I reverted back to 4.4 and my FPS came back. I don’t know what they changed in the CFG but it has lowered the FPS considerably 


Angus Rowlands: i7 8700 RTX Asus Strix 2080, 16 GB RAM

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