50 minutes ago, france89 said:

All good? (For those that did watch it, yes my views still stand - I am NOT excited or looking forward to a new sim from Microsoft - there are far more established and better options available )"

 It's almost as though he's trying to temper everyone else's views based on his benchmark.  'I'm NOT excited, so it's not really reasonable that you should be'

Froogle is an opinionated person (as am I).  But usually his thoughts are much more considered and measured.   This is just a pile of steaming cow manure.

But, given that he's a significant voice in simmy world, it may just be an interesting public tactic to get MS to invite him onto the Insider program.

 

Edited June 20, 20196 yr by ErichB

Maybe Froogle also forgot what made his Youtube channel successful. I'm sure he will now learn who his true followers are.

Now back to the regularly scheduled programming.

I never understood why some consider these FS YouTubers opinions so important (or even got sycophantic); most videos I've watched from these "big names" I could pick holes in stuff they were intimating to be supposedly expert in. Certainly can't wrap my head around people donating to them, I guess I am just not of that generation 👴 but if it brings them joy.

Anyway basically, I didn't consider most of the big FS YouTubers opinions important in their heydays, and I don't now. There's much bias, ego and vested interests, which I think is what's been seen in that removed video, and they're sometimes ill informed.

Edited June 20, 20196 yr by ckyliu

5 hours ago, Superdelphinus said:

If things like farming, car mending and truck driving sims can become massively successful and popular then I’m sure flight simulation can. The element that all of those games have is structure and an overall feeling of making progress, and being relaxed while you’re doing it. 

MSFS can become really popular I think if they really think about how different groups of people might want to use it, and not just create a sandbox. I also think it being part of the game pass bundle so that people don’t have to specifically pay for it could be a really big reason for it to grow. I think huge amounts of people are fascinated by flying, they just need something that’s more accessible and introduces depth logically and in an entertaining way - before unleashing you into a fully hardcore simulation.  

I honestly agree with this.  I have always loved super realistic flight sims, yet I also play a ton of Euro & American Truck Simulator, Dirt Rally, Cold Waters, and many other "sim-lite's" all of which have gaming elements to them.  While I do hope the new FS2020 sets a modern standard for realism in every way, I would not mind if it had options to play it as a more gamey sim lite as well similar to ETS and ATS.

 

About Froogle's negative tirade, it surprises me greatly and I wouldn't expect that type of reaction from him on FS2020.

I believe Froogle is going through some hardships in his life. He has stated several times that his startup companies are not doing well and he's most likely not getting sponsored as much from the companies he was reviewing equipment on. Last time he attended a major flight sim event was back during the last big FSCon in Connecticut several years ago. He hasn't gone to Cosford or the Las Vegas Expo due to funds and sponsorship. He attended the Orlando Expo because he lives in the area. I know he has started to stream on Twitch from time to time but lately even that has dropped like his YouTube channel. His reviews and fully loaded videos have faded away. He will still put out his Sunday Flightsim news videos but even those moved to Mondays or not at all for the week. I think Froogle's time has come and gone in the FlightSim community. Like many great reviewers back in the day like Jordan King, etc, it's time to move on gracefully. These shock value videos for clicks is not helping him.  First there was the Dovetail Games and LM video and then the Orbx video. Now this. 

Edited June 20, 20196 yr by Wise87

Why would anyone have ANY negative comments about MSFS 2020? What MS did in the past is in the past.

So, what exactly do we avid simmers have to lose? If it's another Flight fiasco, who cares - we still have P3d/XP to keep us happy. But what if they deliver, as promised?

To vehemently say this is bad for the community because there are better choices is just ridiculous.

Edited June 20, 20196 yr by tamsini

26 minutes ago, tamsini said:

Why would anyone have ANY negative comments about MSFS 2020? What MS did in the past is in the past.

So, what exactly do we avid simmers have to lose? If it's another Flight fiasco, who cares - we still have P3d/XP to keep us happy. But what if they deliver, as promised?

 To vehemently say this is bad for the community because there are better choices is just ridiculous.

We don't have anything to lose, but apparently he has. For the most of us is just a wait and see game. If it's good, we move, if not, we will keep using our current sims.

For the devs, it might be an awful year (just my opinion, based on all the bash I've seen so far), because the market can lose some of its force until everyone gets a clear view of the new platform.

He’s on twitter harping about why he can't express any opinion without a few hundred people screaming. Well when you release a opinion video and don’t even have your facts correct, than what do you expect. It was known on day one it was releasing for PC. I'm all for someone giving their opinion but at least get the basic facts correct. He had two weeks to know it was coming out for PC first which is why he got such a backlash from viewers.   

Edited June 20, 20196 yr by Wise87

3 minutes ago, Reader said:

None of it really matters and there are far more important things going on to be upset about.

Simmers are an uptight bunch at the best of times.

12 hours ago, David Mills said:

Like many of you, I'm a big fan and follower of Froogle on YouTube. I always look forward to his wonderful weekly updates about flight sim news and add-ons.

About 7:30PM ET today (Wednesday, June 19th), I got notification that Froogle had just uploaded a new video about the just-announced Microsoft Flight Simulator for next year. I immediately dropped what I was doing and eagerly watched Froogle's new video. I was stunned at what I saw and heard. First of all, Froogle's video was titled "Microsoft Flight Sim 2020 -- Who Cares!" At first I thought that the name of the video might be facetious, just to make sure people clicked on the link. But no, the video was an inexplicably embittered, sulking, hyper-critical scolding of Microsoft for creating its new sim. The 12-minute video literally said NOTHING positive or encouraging or hopeful about the new MSFS, nothing. It was almost as if Froogle's self-esteem or sense of usefulness within the flight sim community had been shattered by Microsoft's announcement, an announcement which most of us found very exciting indeed.

After I watched Froogle's video, I spent the next 20 or 25 minutes eating dinner, after which I returned to the computer to watch the video again, thinking I'd perhaps misinterpreted his distraught emotional state. But by the time I returned, Froogle had deleted his "Who Cares!" video from YouTube altogether, no doubt because of the predictably bad reaction it received and because of his repeated, bogus statement that the new simulator might not run on a PC. But in answer to his question, EVERYONE cares about the new sim. We're all curious and interested. It may or may not live up to our expectations. But there's no reason for such an embittered attitude about a flight simulator that's not even been released yet.

 

It sounds as though he is bitter about something?

As with many advancements over the years, some folks get hurt and others benefit.  This new flight simulator is somewhat akin to the advent of the automobile which put the carriage and horse whip makers out of business but created a whole new industry and ultimately benefited a lot of people.

A number of folks stand to lose something once MSFS 2020 is released, not least of which are developers who have committed a lot of resources to P3D, Aerofly, and Xplane development.  Then there are the "impartial reviewers" who have been receiving compensation from 3rd party vendors for years who will lose income once those vendors' products become obsolete.  Lastly, there are users like myself who have invested hundreds if not thousands of dollars on the FSX/P3D simulator whose addons will soon become obsolete; but I don't see this as a loss really because we got a lot of enjoyment using those addons, and in the long run a new modern flight simulator will benefit us all.

It is to be expected that some of those who stand to lose from this advancement will express negative views about MSFS 2020, or become defensive and/or lash out.  It's an age old side effect of progress, where there are always some winners and some losers.

Dave

11 hours ago, Paraffin said:

I'm not trying to promote anything here, but with P3D, XP11, and Aerofly FS2 continuing development, in what respect are any of these efforts in the current generation "dying"? 

FSX is dead, and the other platforms in the current generation may not be moving forward as fast as we'd like, but dying? Really?

I'm rooting for MSFS to light a fire under the butts of the other developers, but whatever happens with this new product, flight sims will continue even if the new MSFS isn't a success. And if it is, then great! But I don't see this hobby dying because the next great thing hasn't come along yet. If that were true, none of us would be taking to the air in our current sims, having fun, and talking about it here.

Every day, there are people like me who give up on the buggy, bad performing, extremely expensive (due to needing so many add-ons) simulators we currently have. 

Maybe I'm completely wrong on that, but I don't see a hobby growing. I see it stagnating and becoming more and more niche. How many more $120 planes are the masses going to buy to fly in the same 15 year old, aging visual representation we see in the ESP sims? 

XP11 has some good features and I've been called an XP11 booster from time to time in the past, but Austin's snail pace at introducing even basic features and fixes will forever keep him in a niche with the PC simulator community. And he seems to be fine with that. His vision is just fundamentally different. 

I'll concede that if P3D V5 and XP12 come out and are truly next-gen simulators that take a major leap forward graphically and performance wise, then sure, MSFS becomes less of a mainstay hope for the future. Right now, I'm simply commenting on what we currently have. P3D is about to go into it's 5th version and since V2 people have been speculating about major graphics changes and a redoing of the scenery system. That's yet to materialize. 

Until I see some confirmation that P3D's continued development is about to take a major step forward, I'll assume it's going to keep being further iterations of the ESP engine. 

Edited June 20, 20196 yr by bonchie

I used to watch Froogle's channel every week but stopped when it started to become apparent (to me, at least) that he often seemed to have an agenda with regards to certain products or companies. What sealed it for me was the hatchet job he did on FSW when it had barely hit the streets (and was still in a very basic, early-access state). He subsequently admitted that it was actually pretty good but by then, as far as his followers were concerned, the damage was done. I haven't watched his channel since as it seemed that he was starting to believe his own hype about how important he was in the flight sim community. To be honest, there are far better sources of information and reviews around anyway (Avsim being a prime example).

Edited June 20, 20196 yr by vortex681

11 minutes ago, vortex681 said:

I used to watch Froogles channel every week but stopped when it started to become apparent (to me, at least) that he often seemed to have an agenda with regards to certain products or companies. What sealed it for me was the hatchet job he did on FSW when it had barely hit the streets (and was still in a very basic, early-access state).

Actually, he'd shown his true colors way before that with the whole Opus affair... It seems more and more people are getting fed up with his BS.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with his opinion but dude needs to chill out with martyrdom, woah is me bc people didn’t like his opinion  

Missing that it will be on PC is kind of a big deal for a “trusted” sim news site, however; a mistake is not a big deal, just correct your error and quit being so whiny about it.  And yeah welcome to media dude; if you are going to say you don’t like something for a specific reason you should probably not get a glaring fact wrong in the first paragraph. Kind of makes you look like a troll.