Let me play the hobby psychologist 🙂 :
"I" have invested a large amount of money into my current sim, and it looks good, works well etc., I have achieved something with a lot of work (tuning/installing/modifying/etc), now there is a new sim, much better than what I use, and I can already see all the others moving on, using the "shiny new toy", and I am stuck with this old sim, I wish they didn't have anything "shinier" than my sim, then I could live with what I have for a long time, but not if everyone else plays with the "shiny new sim".

(Don't take these words of mine too serious, no harm intended, was just thinking why there are times of not enjoying what we have. I apologize if anyone feels offended by my writing).

Edited December 1, 20196 yr by siggy

Unchartered waters. Since when is any flight sim on the cutting edge of latest technology / mind boggling graphics and extremely motivated and talented developers?  LR just a tiny small team and they spend so much resources on "GloMo" 40,000 airports in cell phone / tablet version - that nobody will use. It's a good time to shake things up. 

Edited December 1, 20196 yr by Greazer

3PD had/have a chance to market same product for different sims/platforms with different prices and some times update/upgrade fees, therefor they are winners in any case (PMDG NXGu as and example) and if you look really deep you will find that PMDG has sold the same product more than once for different sims with premium price and minimal code change, hence they have it like a saw (eating going down and eating coming back up), therefor I thank MS for giving me a chance to set my priorities based on what I have (budget / time / hardware) it is still business at the end, 3DP have the right to present what they have and I have the right to choose based on price/quality/support (my own standards), and they still have a chance to impress audience with the new sim (under totally new standards), I will buy their product if it worth it by my standard under any sim I choose and it will be exclusively MSFS (it is a new era and we must move forward).

 

Just My $0.02

 

P.S. I used PMDG as an example for a great marketing strategy that is able to convince simmers (at least me) to buy their good quality products, and also to their bold move lately by announcing MSFS support early in development and giving their customers credit for buying their latest NGXu for P3D.

Edited December 1, 20196 yr by penta_a

<sigh> I swore to myself I wouldn't intervene anymore in such a thread but I am weak.

It is a bell curve. 

On one side a tiny minority of positive hysterics  who see the new sim as some kind of messiah of flight simulation and wishing the demise of all existing sims and the developers who contributed to the hobby.   >>> Ignore user list

On the other side, a tiny minority of negative hysterics who cannot really make a difference between firing their beloved sim and going to church (for them the FS messiah is already here) plus those who are naturally bitter/unpleasant anyway whatever the topic. >>> Ignore user list  

In between, a vast majority of decent simmers, glad for what we have now, eagerly looking forward to what the new sim will bring to the table and grateful that MS and Asobo are so open so long in advance, during the design of the sim.

I simplify, of course, but I am not far from the truth. 

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 20196 yr by domkle

It's the level of speculation about MSFS that annoys some more "traditional" simmers (like me).  I have no problem with MS developing a new sim but I'll wait until we know what it is exactly before making a decision whether to buy.  The promo pics look nice.  The apparent interest of PMDG to develop for it bodes well because the level of realism presumably meets PMDG's historic style and hopefully it means there won't be a closed "Steam/MS Flight" route to market, which PMDG have spoken strongly against.  But let's wait and see.  Plenty of time yet I think.

To those who complain, I am sorry but it is your fault if your entire financial existence depends on selling trees and water textures unless you are a big 3pd studio like pmdg who have already adapted and moved on. Adapt or get left behind. Simple. Or you can earn our gratitude by announcing upgrade options for your products to MSFS at bare minimum costs instead of alienating your entire customer base. This way you will retain most of your customers who can enjoy the addon in their current sim and not get worried about it becoming obsolete when MSFS launches next year.

Edited December 1, 20196 yr by Baber20

In very general terms, i think the behaviour of grumpy ones comes for a good part from the fact they never experienced different simulators besides their main choise, nor videogames in general. So in a way, what they lack is an open mind and it shows on their messages.

Nobody forced them to invest so much money on addons for a single platform, we were lucky enough to have different simulators with different strong and weak points. We are lucky enough nobody is taking away their toys. Their simulators are still there so they can still use them with all the fancy things they bought for them.

As for Microsoft being evil, Microsoft Flight, DTG and so on, i think some users have been a bit too receptive of certain major third party statements who were defending their business from the uncertainty of a customers shift away from their main platform.

5 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I love what I see ... this issue is pretty simple.  Developers kept the MS platform alive and their/our rewards was a PR campaign that took us all by surprise ... 6 months later and still nothing delivered.  Timing is key.

Were you not complaining about not having an SDK and being able to have add-ons ready before its release? They started this "PR campaign" so they can communicate with us and gather useful feedback, and now it's paying off. They have put seasons, ATC, AI and VR on the plans, and an early version of the SDK is now getting ready for a limited release, thanks to the input from third-party developers. They have delivered.

Would you rather if the simulator was just released without any sort of announcement? This would create a lot more drama... Besides, how many AAA games are released without being announced several months or years in advance? Very few to none. They need to create anticipation for the product to sell, especially since the simulator is a showcase of Microsoft's Bing and Azure technologies and the Xbox Game Pass. And we need it to sell if we don't want to go back to severely outdated platforms with excruciatingly slow progress.

2 hours ago, Baber20 said:

To those who complain, I am sorry but it is your fault if your entire financial existence depends on selling trees and water textures unless you are a big 3pd studio like pmdg who have already adapted and moved on. Adapt or get left behind. Simple. Or you can earn our gratitude by announcing upgrade options for your products to MSFS at bare minimum costs instead of alienating your entire customer base. This way you will retain most of your customers who can enjoy the addon in their current sim and not get worried about it becoming obsolete when MSFS launches next year.

Is that any different to basing your "entire financial existence" on selling cakes and jam doughnuts in the local bakery, or mice and keyboards at Currys PC World? It is also worth remembering that those same "trees and water textures" were gratefully received by the flight simulation community until something bigger and shinier (and, dare I say it.....more seductive) appeared.

Edited December 1, 20196 yr by Christopher Low

7 hours ago, SpiritFlyer said:

Imagine what it feels like to be a major addon company and have business come to an almost standstill due to the anticipation for MSFS 2020 by your former customers who no longer get excited enough to buy your product for the old sim.

 

What I can imagine is...

In 6 months 3rd party developers can release addons for MSFS, with at least 10x the market of potential customers, bringing riches beyond anything you could have imagined on the current sims.

You also have to opportunity to work with the incredible new technology, not being held back by the dated platforms of current sims. 

9 hours ago, Scottoest said:

2) A weird backlash to some third party add-on developers.

Wouldn't call it weird, I think it's the lid finally coming off some repressed feelings and thoughts. The third party scene for flight simulation has been a very mixed bag for many years, both in terms of perceived value but also in the power third party has held in the community. There's just so many facets to this frustration that would usually end up getting you warned, threads closed down or public ridicule. There's a steep entry for new users. Feeling of developers taking advantage of this very inflated micro economy. An increasing numbers of simmers have been ready for a major disruption for a long time, especially seeing a competitor simulator rising alongside that seems to do so much, for much less. Now a good majority can finally breathe and be honest about their thoughts on the current third party scene. 

While I'm certainly not in the camp that harbour any major ill feelings towards the third party scene, I still think it's at a point where it needs a good, healthy wake-up call, because it has grown very stagnant and complacent. 

Talking of unrest in the sim community.....I am trying to imagine the reaction if Microsoft decided to cancel the new version of Flight Simulator before development had been completed. Thoughts of an underground bunker stocked with six months of supplies are drifting through my mind.....

Edited December 1, 20196 yr by Christopher Low

Please let us not put the whole developer community in the same bag, again ! Off my head, I can think of at least three of them which are welcoming well the new sim PMDG, Aerosoft  and FScrew. All of the others are mute and nobody can speak on their behalf, in one sense or another, with their own agenda. 

Anybody who has followed the whole story since June sees that an enormous 'market' (payware and freeware) will open . It will not be the same as before, the textures, weather, stopgap utilities, regional scenery companies will suffer. The 3D modelers in general, aircraft makers and airports makers will have a field day. There will be also new products related to tourism for instance etc.

 

 

 

 

 

As far as the disruption goes for existing sims and 3PD it's just a function of "s*** happens" and "life's not fair". For some it's a case of "It's the end of the world", for others "Hah! a new opportunity" and for many somewhere in between those two extremes.

I'm sorry for those affected and especially for those more likely to be adversely affected but the world marches on. You only have to look at the disruption that online selling has caused to existing retail stores on the high street and the subsequent liquidation of various brands to realise that this has been happening for quite a while.

This unrest thats mentioned, Im guessing is by no means the majority. Not even close.   Embracing change is difficult for some.  But we make investments all the time that eventually lose there efficiency, production, quality and visual aesthetics.  I do find it astounding thought that for years when flight simming didnt hold too much hope after FSX, the demise of Flight, and P3D a minor name that no one knew about, so many were whining (myself included) of 32 bit and OOMs, performance, lack of visuals, and implausible realism.  P3D came along and with the same reservations, there was quite the debate, with licensing and kinds of stuff.  Same negativity. Yet here we are today with many using P3D in 64 bit with no OOMs ever mentioned again.   XP11 did the same.  But to move over to P3D took alot of teeth pulling.  Same reasoning, of investing so much in FSX, and have to rebuy.  But I thought you wanted all these improvements?
 

Now, while P3D run fairly well, it can be very tempermental on performance, and visuals while acceptable, look no where near like a sim should like in the year 2020.   Now a new sim is on the horizon and we have the 3 Rs.  Rince Repeat , and Recycle the same debate, defensive investment, as previous improvements came along.  There will always be people who are always negative, and to bring down others to their shared sentiment.  If you associate with a crowd that has that attitude, eventually you will have the same.  Flip side is, thankfully, that the majority are very excited to bring on this huge level of improvements, and its up to each one of us to either accept and embrace, or shun it.  But dont ruin it for others.   No one is tying anyone up and forcing you to buy the new sim or else.  Praise that flight simming is strong even though its a niche, we have a strong community, or else we wouldnt be here after all these years.  

Now Im getting close to TOD into PHNL and have to prepare.  Have fun and smile.