1 hour ago, tonywob said:

 

Any outsider visiting this forum and doesn't know the users involved would come away with the impression that everyone here is a crazed fanatic who hates any criticism. 

 

 

Not only the outsiders, Tony. As somebody being on this forum since June 2019, this is the feeling I start to have. I do not agree with the OP but he expresses a legitimate frustration and the only trolls (half a dozen of them, always the same) I see in this thread are those who are mocking or bashing him without any argument which goes beyond a couple of one-liners. Are we going to see this forum, a place to debate, sink into some kind of a sect ?  

 This is certainly not what the Asobo open policy wants to achieve. Everything is on the table.  Even the frustration. What he says has been already said by many ? Then what ? The CTD problems are on his side ? Then what ?  If you don't like the "I quit" threads, stop reading them and move on. 

Edited October 9, 20205 yr by Dominique_K

19 minutes ago, tonywob said:

Not everyone is enjoying the sim and some people just have an 'interesting" way of showing it. 

Sorry to disagree here. There are enough threads about issues of MSFS and there's nothing wrong with them, notably if they provide solutions/workarounds.

It's those "I am done with MSFS" posts coming up every other day bothering me - because most of them serve a purpose (which the authors will never admit, of course): To draw other users to another sim usually conveniently referred to in the corresponding post to make it (re)grow with the purpose to draw add-on developers (back) to "that" sim.

Kind regards, Michael

@pmb Yes, and this is the sort of posts we want to see. Helpful and interesting discussions (both positive and negative) that have a solution or some outcome, and not just "So what..." or "Bye then..." type posts, as it simply makes the forum look bad.. Imagine seeing the same remarks on people just posting that they enjoy the sim... it works both ways. Instead what has happened is that another post has turned to a 9 page topic taking up valuable space on the front page and not going anywhere, and is what newcomers to the site will see when they visit the forum.

I think however you're overthinking the original poster's intentions that they want to draw users back to P3D/XP. Some people are just angry and unable to express themselves constructively (as I said in my comment above). I'm not saying that many posts are purposely malicious or have an agenda, these posts clearly exist and I think we all know who these users are and most of us don't fall for it. 

For me personally, I don't have most of the problems many users complain about in MFS and it works great for me. It doesn't mean that they don't exist though as I probably use the sim in a different way and have different expectations and hardware etc.. No sim is perfect, but at least this sim is still being developed and Asobo are listening. 

 

7 minutes ago, pmb said:

Sorry to disagree here. There are enough threads about issues of MSFS and there's nothing wrong with them, notably if they provide solutions/workarounds.

It's those "I am done with MSFS" posts coming up every other day bothering me - because most of them serve a purpose (which the authors will never admit, of course): To draw other users to another sim usually conveniently referred to in the corresponding post to make it (re)grow with the purpose to draw add-on developers (back) to "that" sim.

Kind regards, Michael

DCS is not in competition with MSF, Michael.

I agree with you that some posts are clearly motivated by draining some customers back to other sims for some reasons, (not always pure of self interest) . They are so obvious that they become to be silly and they generally are not the initiator of a « I quit »  thread. Cf. the ludicrous trolling via a recent video of the 787... 

4 minutes ago, tonywob said:

I'm not saying that many posts are purposely malicious or have an agenda, these posts clearly exist and I think we all know who these users are and most of us don't fall for it. 

As long as the rest of us are allowed to call those posts out directly without a moderator stepping in to chastise posters accurately calling out trolling, seems totally fair to me to just let the discussion take its course on both sides. And that's mostly what I've seen -- hopefully it will stay that way!

James

53 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

This is a misrepresentation. Nobody is bothered by criticism per se. It's the way that criticism is worded that's the problem.

Compare the two following statements:

1. The Citation Longitude's fuel tanks are too small, hence the flight model is off. In addition, opening the VFR map crashes the sim

and

2. Asobo is incompetent! This is just a money grab from Microsoft! The patches were never tested. I'm done with this scenery simulator!

Now, which statement do you think is more likely to invite civil discussion?

In addition, a lot of folks, for example, complain about CTDs but never supply supporting information like dxdiag or the Windows Event Viewer error logs.

Criticism without falsifiable evidence is not productive.

Correct.  That is exactly the point.

All opinions are valid, always,  from anyone and everyone.  But it's the way thing are framed that triggers reaction.

We need more threads about fixing what's broken on MSFS 2020, instead of these types of threads that anchor a negative song in my head.

The sim has a long way to go and there are some talented mod creators doing everything they can to improve the sim.

More positivity and less negativity please!

3 minutes ago, honanhal said:

As long as the rest of us are allowed to call those posts out directly without a moderator stepping in to chastise posters accurately calling out trolling, seems totally fair to me to just let the discussion take its course on both sides. And that's mostly what I've seen -- hopefully it will stay that way!

There is a difference between calling out trolling and debating/counter-arguing and pointless posts such as "who cares...".. If you have a legitimate concern about a user then you can report the post, or counter-argue the case. Nothing wrong with this, and that won't change. What won't be tolerated at Avsim are when posts turn petty and personal

1 hour ago, jaydor said:

we will see the fixes that will bring the leavers back and become a great flight sim.  I am now placing a hard hat on ready for the stones..

You do not need a hard hat Jaydor because you gave a fair and valid opinion, not a pointless rant or tantrum that nobody can respond to in any effective way.

The OP's post also came across as another attention seeking 'I'm out' post.  Maybe he didn't mean it like that, but If he is out, how are we supposed to respond? 

I have also followed some of his previous posts, and there is a certain tone to them.  Whether he recognizes it or not, he is coming across as really negative, and people won't want to help you when it comes across like that, as it feels like you might be wasting your time, as they are constantly ready to throw the towel in.

I actually think he should come back and ask people if they can help to solve some of his specific problems with the sim, and he will then get a great response from the community here - I always have.  He will need to have more patience though, and wait for a few things to be fixed properly.

I think as Ricardo pointed to - it ain't what you say it's the way that you say it! 

Edited October 9, 20205 yr by bobcat999
Toned down!

4 minutes ago, DJJose said:

More positivity and less negativity please!

A forum is a place of discussion not celebration. Positivity and negativity have their place. Up to the reader to see and even callout errors and manipulations when any.

Well, just to add to the "no CTD" post of mine above, something like the freely available A36 Turbo by Rob Young ( yes, Rob himself from Real Air !!! ) is, on it's own and as long as I'm concerned an igniter to the thrill playing MFS can be.

Yes I agree it's rather unpolished in some aspects and look forward for updates in the next months, but stuff like being able to fly at various flight levels, surrounded by cloudy skies without a "halo view" or clouds and other weather popping on / off on me is 2nd to none in civil flightsimming so far for me...

 

 

7 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

A forum is a place of discussion not celebration. Positivity and negativity have their place. Up to the reader to see and even callout errors and manipulations when any.

Well, I sometimes like to start a positive discussion by celebrating some good news about the sim or updates, but I get your point. 

And once again, it is not about the negativity as a valid point, it is when people rant that causes the problem. 

I know peoples' definition of a rant can be different, but if someone came up to you in the street and spoke like in the first post, most people would walk away and shake their head.  Kind of what is happening here - A natural reaction I think. 

Tired of this now anyway.  The weekend is nearly upon us.  MSFS Showtime! 😁

For me MSFS2020 is still the future and I am "thrilled".

I didn't buy it yet. Why? Because I see what MSFS is: A very good plattform for addons (for me as tubeline flyer).

GA is already great.

As soon as PMDG joins the game - I will happily buy it - together with a 3080 and a 5900X 😉

Edited October 9, 20205 yr by swiesma

I'm eagerly awaiting helicopters. It's as shame to have such detailed low-level scenery and also 3rd party cityscapes and not be able to explore them in a helicopter, but hopefully shouldn't be too much longer

44 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

A forum is a place of discussion not celebration.

50% correct.

Less negativity does NOT equal NO negativity. I've seen users come here and ask for help and even will state something "negative" about the sim. Then members come to the rescue to help and most issues are resolved. Something negative was turned into a positive.

Something worth celebrating!

Stop looking for confrontation and develop the attitude of "how can I help?"