MSFS2020 have now been a love and hate app. I am also very frustrated about how the updates quality are.

Time to move to other hobbies. 

15 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

So I hope Asobo do read the Avsim forums (in fact I know they do).

Unfortunately I have the feeling that it's only the community managers that do so. They are the only ones from the team registered on AVSIM, and the only evidence they do read it is in the development updates which they are in charge of. And if Asobo are refusing to address specific issues, like the flashing clouds in my case, then there is not much the community managers can do. I really hope I am proven wrong though.

1 hour ago, Steku said:

my posts were deleted by the mods (reason: lack of respect to the developers)

Thumbs up to Avsim and the moderators for the freedom of speech we have in here.

 

Even all the fights against pro or contra MSFS are handled very well in here. It`s a very good place for simulation fans.

1 hour ago, Steku said:

Any time I mentioned that the patches actually downgraded some feature on the official forums, my posts were deleted by the mods (reason: lack of respect to the developers).

I've had that too and now I'm serving a ban for suggesting that the "unrest" on the forums was caused by poor Patch Releases which introduces more bugs than fixes, all truths they didn't want hear so they silenced me, not great it is.

I've posted plenty of detailed constructive criticism posts, a few bug reports, but in the end if I'm not kissing the bare behind of the Devs I'm not wanted there it seems.

No great loss of course, but freedom of speech it certainly is not.

Edited November 29, 20205 yr by MarcG

1 hour ago, Steku said:

My biggest dissapointment is that they ignore the work of the users who do detailed testing an analysis (e.g. the issue introduced by one of the patches with reduced tree display range, and the trees dissaperaring and apperaing again at even closer ranges). They say they spend a lot of time reading forums (especially the official one). And then, during the Q&A sessions they are surprised by some information which is perfectly documented, nearly ready to be solved, pointing to probably one wrong artithmetic statement in the signle line of code.

Why they strees so much that they read the forums if they are genuinely unaware of the most of the hot content (lightings, tree display range, broken update download system etc.)

Any time I mentioned that the patches actually downgraded some feature on the official forums, my posts were deleted by the mods (reason: lack of respect to the developers).

 

Well I totally agree, and I don't know what you said in the deleted posts, but this one seems reasonable.
 
As for the mods, I think they have an awkward job to do sometimes, and I can't judge, as I wouldn't like to do it, but I suppose if some posts do draw near to the line, they delete them because Asobo will stop reading here if they think is is just a mud slinging room, and this is fine, as long as they do acknowledge the constructive and detailed reports as well, as you mention. 

It is all very frustrating over something that has the potential to be absolutely brilliant.  hopefully we can all look back in a few years and laugh about it!  🙂  But it is certainly difficult at the moment.

It should be noted that most of the moderators in the official forums are volunteers, and not affiliated with Microsoft or Asobo. I believe that they, along with the Discord moderators, were selected by the community managers during the Alpha/Beta process.

I think all the Microsoft/Asobo community managers and moderators (except for RoyalTot, a recently-appointed community manager) bear the "FS" logo as their avatar.

3 minutes ago, MarcG said:

I've had that too and now I'm serving a ban for suggesting that the "unrest" on the forums was caused by poor Patch Releases which introduces more bugs than fixes, all truths they didn't want hear so they silenced me, not great it is.

I've posted plenty of detailed constructive criticism posts, a few bug reports, but in the end if I'm not kissing the bare behind of the Devs I'm not wanted there it seems.

No great loss of course, but freedom of speech it certainly is not.

..And this is why I have not joined that forum. A forum is a place where you can praise and make reasonable criticisms. Any forum belonging to a major developer with an understandable vested interest is never going to be a host of diverse discussion. So I understand why that forum is what it is, but to say a comment about a patch is causing unrest is utterly ridiculous. 

This is the problem with closed loop forums. They never work as a proper discussion exercise.

Avsim gets a lot of stick from other places, but it is generally moderated very well and very tolerant of differing views. Above all it has no discernable bias towards one sim or another.

4 minutes ago, robert young said:

..And this is why I have not joined that forum. A forum is a place where you can praise and make reasonable criticisms. Any forum belonging to a major developer with an understandable vested interest is never going to be a host of diverse discussion. So I understand why that forum is what it is, but to say a comment about a patch is causing unrest is utterly ridiculous. 

This is the problem with closed loop forums. They never work as a proper discussion exercise.

Avsim gets a lot of stick from other places, but it is generally moderated very well and very tolerant of differing views. Above all it has no discernable bias towards one sim or another.

That's really bad news. Of course, and immature and non-commercial behavior. Similar thing happened years ago at the Aerofly forums, as they didn't tolerate criticism, and at the end, we all knew the result: an almost dead platform.

Asobo has now plenty of things to be worried about.

Cheers, Ed

37 minutes ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

Unfortunately I have the feeling that it's only the community managers that do so. 

Agreed. And the Microsoft marketing double speak : we focus on serious simmers, we listen to the community, etc couldn’t work but for a limited time. The time is up. 

Asobo’s baby deserves better.

If I had a message to Asobo it would the title of an old French comedy movie ‘Faut pas prendre les enfants du bon Dieu pour des canards sauvages.´ 😁

8 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

If I had a message to Asobo it would the title of an old French comedy movie ‘Faut pas prendre les enfants du bon Dieu pour des canards sauvages.´ 😁

'We must not take the children of the good Lord for wild ducks'. - good one! 👍😁

Thanks bobcat999 for putting this out and I hope this message gain more steam and OSM's categorization;

"FS2020 is a MMORPG - a massively multiplayer online role-playing game."

Admittedly, this has rocked my thoughts about the sim...and I have to consider that. 

Yeah.. I had a great flight yesterday from KJAN to KICT(hand-flew the route to cruise, and on final)…so I thought, but I know just (2 days ago, I had the lightning issue in clearing skies after a front long passing the area...which was deemed "fixed"...Changing the server to European servers did nothing.....  I also pulled up FSX and hand flew my old 737...without my yoke and proper setup, it still felt great…even not properly setup.

I am really torn today by this sim today...

The water mask issues and the misleading videos showing those beautiful waters...one gentleman, I believe, has put the water wakes back in the sim...these are all basic things that were in FSX from jump.  With THEM having access to FSX, it baffles me that they would bring us a product that is, principally, less than what was is FSX. TO be clear, FSX is flawed and old...Yes, we know that.  Nobody wants to go back...We all know that things take time...

YEAH!! the visuals are stunning, but there are significant issues even with the "best" part of the sim...that I thought, should have been fixed by now..

It's like they are "whack-a-moling" things...fix one thing and break many others...that is a troubling sign.

 

I think, this somehow, needs to be addressed the next Q/A session…What are you building?….Yeah, I don’t want an online role-playing game, I want to learn about aviation and all that goes into it…

I was able to watch the last dev q & a, and it's always "yes, we know or yes, we can do that"...these are baseline items a simulator should have...But then you see questions being asked like "What are you using for your hair?"  Seriously, come on please....Yes, I saw that in the chat!!  

Silly stuff like this but yet, we are left with something that's less that what we thought...none of us knew what we were getting...difficult to believe what we thought ... this title would close down x-plane or p3d...OR FSX which I do have on my old PC.

Ok, frustration aside:  I am a fan of this title.  I pray it can get there...it does have a lot going for it.

But, it won't go anywhere if we don't hold people accountable for what they sell...or any ongoing rhetoric about who the title is made for.

Let us know who/what this title is produced for.... so we can make decisions ourselves on what we do(fancy way of saying, setting expectations), going forward.

If the title is to be an MMORPG, fine...let it be the best MMORPG money can buy("Fortnitesimutulator"...there's a new name for you:-)...

if it is a simulator, let's get it done...I'll/We'll wait all day for that:-)

Thanks All,

Cheers,

RB 

36 minutes ago, KJANRBeard said:

...

if it is a simulator, let's get it done...I'll/We'll wait all day for that:-)

Thanks All,

Cheers,

RB 

+1

Richard.

6 hours ago, robert young said:

..And this is why I have not joined that forum. A forum is a place where you can praise and make reasonable criticisms. Any forum belonging to a major developer with an understandable vested interest is never going to be a host of diverse discussion. So I understand why that forum is what it is, but to say a comment about a patch is causing unrest is utterly ridiculous. 

The moderation on the MSFS Official forum is doing nothing but shooting MS/Asobo in the foot, IMHO.

Even worse than the threads they close because of "unrest" (which is applied as an arbitrary metric to allow them to close threads that make the sim look too bad) are the many threads with new users making their very 1st post asking for help that they close as duplicates without linking to the actual solution.   Or peoples 1st thread asking for help, getting merged into someone's 6-week old dead thread on a somewhat related topic.  If I were that new person, struggling with the sim, who took the time to go seek out help, it would be incredibly discouraging to me to have this be the response.  As more and more people have that experience,  word gets around, and the reputational damage is done. A better option would be to have a 'Newbie Corner' section and more gently move those threads to that area, but still leave them open for people to get help without cluttering up General Discussion......but they have taken a very heavy-handed approach.  And even questioning why it's acceptable to merge someone's new topic into an 8 week old dead thread from 2 patches ago is an "offense" because their code of conduct bans "discussing moderator actions".

I've also noticed that the things that get merged to reduce thread count on topics seem to be the topics that make MS/Asobo "look bad", while other topics of discussion are allowed to have duplicate threads all over the place.

Edited November 29, 20205 yr by marsman2020

Amazing--MSFS has worked very well since day 1 for me, and continues to do so today in very large part.  Sorry for everyone who has had problems and thwarted expectations.  I think once it is released for Xbox we will see MS/Asobo fine-tune the rest of the sim to meet a higher sim standard that will beat or exceed the old sims in all ways.   They're just pre-occupied w/ the Xbox release is my sense and have put the likes of PC simmers on the back burner for now, or so we hope.

1 hour ago, KJANRBeard said:

Silly stuff like this but yet, we are left with something that's less that what we thought...none of us knew what we were getting...difficult to believe what we thought ... this title would close down x-plane or p3d...OR FSX which I do have on my old PC.

RB, thank you very much for your post! My English is very bad (I use Google Translator))) and it is difficult for me clearly explain my thoughts but you was able to understand what the essence of my nightmares - FS2020 could be a Terminator for the classic Flight Simulation games. That's why I really hope that 3PDs like PMDG, A2A, etc, will create a consortium to develop separate sophisticated SDK to make an independent FS2020 Pro for the "hardcore simmers".

Edited November 29, 20205 yr by OSM