BINGO!

 

sherm

I am also one of those who love my simulator now, P3d 5.2 Hotfix1, and I am not so pessimistic for the future. LM has given us a better simulator in every new version, and the third part developers has updated their programs too. I think this will continue. I think the military customers also will have better simulators, and that will be good for us also. Many are complaining about the visuals in P3d compared to FS2020, but with my flying, mostly IFR, I dont need better visuals. Last week I visited a full motion 737 800 simulator, used daily for pilot training, and the visuals in that simulator was simpler than we had in FS 2000.  So let us be happy and fly!

Tor Arild Danielsen

 

On 9/26/2021 at 4:46 AM, jabloomf1230 said:

 nothing I've seen from either LM or LR could entice me to shell out money for another sim and its add-ons.

That's exactly what I feel about MSFS. To spend the same amount as P3D albeit with no addons needed (yet), not for me.

(Not going into which versions as that will get this post deleted).

MSFS without working AI Traffic and complex planes is purely Microsoft World Visuals Simulator. And yes, looks like P3D5.2 and beyond is a choice of a die-hard simmer. Yes, I do have MSFS and I fly occasionally when Asobo releases World Updates.  

I think sometimes we forget that we have had the enjoyment (and of course a few growing pains) of P3D since its inception back in 2010. That's over 10 years of sim enjoyment before the latest incarnation of MSFS came along last year and each major P3D version has given us some major improvements.We are far ahead of where we were with FSX.

 

The two current sims constantly mentioned in these threads are in comparison at different levels of product maturity and I for one enjoy the wide range of add-ons that make P3D a great sim.

I am not surprised that the flow of new and updated P3D product add-ons to the market has slowed but there's a whole host already to chose from, so I am not disappointed.

 

I do hope that LM can keep pace with the advent of the new OS (Win 11), CPUs (Alder Lake and beyond plus whatever AMD can do to keep the pressure on Intel) and GPUs (PCIE Gen 5) coming to the market in the not to distant future that will hopefully bring flight simulation to the pinnacle of enjoyment.

AND on a  side note, I did listen in to Ben and Austin's preview of XP12 and I found it shed a very important perspective of the global mapping of the earth in flightsim products and explained why autogen is still important to have.

 

If LM released v6 would you buy it? In all honesty perhaps v5 is the last version we need with DX12. Are there plans for DX13 and if so, what would that bring? Nothing sensational I’m sure.

The big leap was to 64-bit in v4. That transformed the sim. Continued graphical and performance improvements with v5 are offset by DXGI issues.

What is missing from v5? We have quality 3rd party aircraft soon to be joined by a state-of-the-art 64-bit Concorde either later this year or next. The FSL Airbus and PMDG aircraft are as good as you’ll get.

There are lots of airports available for v4 most of which will still work with v5. Third-party landclass and mesh greatly improves the default sim. Active Sky weather gives great results too.

We have to accept that the flaws brought over from FSX via the ESP engine aren’t going to be fixed but stars visible in daylight and Ai traffic that aren’t very intelligent are fairly minor irritations. The AIG package will always work in v5.

If v5.2 was the last release it wouldn’t be a catastrophe unlike in 2009 when Microsoft pulled the plug on the 32-bit horrible FSX that even top notch hardware struggled with.

One day I’ll probably buy MSFS but only for low-level VFR stuff. For serious flying P3D will remain my first choice.

I would like google maps for the sim… but I do not think that will happen and depending upon what it would bring to the table I would consider v6.

I was reluctant to upgrade from v4 to v5, but once I did, I was completely satisfied ….. granted issues raised here and elsewhere with many solutions found. 

sherm

9 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

If LM released v6 would you buy it? In all honesty perhaps v5 is the last version we need with DX12. Are there plans for DX13 and if so, what would that bring? Nothing sensational I’m sure.

The big leap was to 64-bit in v4. That transformed the sim. Continued graphical and performance improvements with v5 are offset by DXGI issues.

What is missing from v5? We have quality 3rd party aircraft soon to be joined by a state-of-the-art 64-bit Concorde either later this year or next. The FSL Airbus and PMDG aircraft are as good as you’ll get.

There are lots of airports available for v4 most of which will still work with v5. Third-party landclass and mesh greatly improves the default sim. Active Sky weather gives great results too.

We have to accept that the flaws brought over from FSX via the ESP engine aren’t going to be fixed but stars visible in daylight and Ai traffic that aren’t very intelligent are fairly minor irritations. The AIG package will always work in v5.

If v5.2 was the last release it wouldn’t be a catastrophe unlike in 2009 when Microsoft pulled the plug on the 32-bit horrible FSX that even top notch hardware struggled with.

One day I’ll probably buy MSFS but only for low-level VFR stuff. For serious flying P3D will remain my first choice.

The main issue with P3D is that most major 3rd party developer are moving to MSFS to make their $$$. Sure some will stay on P3D but the the amounts of new addons will be severely limited. So if you are happy with what you have in P3D, than it's a fine platform, It runs fine, I have no major complain with it except that it looks very dated. It's true at FL380, who cares but just the default airport in P3D compare to the quality of default airport on MSFS alone it s a big deterrent for flying in P3D. If it wasn't for the Maddog or the Dash8, I don't think I would boot up  P3D anymore. 

Actually, P3D has a coverage of almost 90% of the main hubs in the world + all the mainstream medium and heavy jets with an exception of A350/A380. It's the highest ever benchmark of add-ones availability for a given platform at a specific point of time (Fall 2021). We have NG, Buses, 77X, 74X, 78X, Dash, 717 in a study-level quality form and shape. We have best freeware PBR based AI Traffic with custom liveries and detailed schedules. We have 200+ high quality sceneries!!! 

Yes, I do miss EHAMV2 from FlyTampa that would probably never be released for the P3D, but I have tons of other products. What does MSFS has as of today? Nothing, with an exception of quickly converted P3D airports, which looks bizzare without AI and some of them don't even have PBR that they do have in P3D! 

With that being said...P3D all the way, until Asobo will truly turn its face to the developers. And I have a bad feeling that DX12 integration would be not that painless and some of you think.   

26 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

If LM released v6 would you buy it? In all honesty perhaps v5 is the last version we need with DX12. Are there plans for DX13 and if so, what would that bring? Nothing sensational I’m sure.

The big leap was to 64-bit in v4. That transformed the sim. Continued graphical and performance improvements with v5 are offset by DXGI issues.

What is missing from v5? We have quality 3rd party aircraft soon to be joined by a state-of-the-art 64-bit Concorde either later this year or next. The FSL Airbus and PMDG aircraft are as good as you’ll get.

There are lots of airports available for v4 most of which will still work with v5. Third-party landclass and mesh greatly improves the default sim. Active Sky weather gives great results too.

We have to accept that the flaws brought over from FSX via the ESP engine aren’t going to be fixed but stars visible in daylight and Ai traffic that aren’t very intelligent are fairly minor irritations. The AIG package will always work in v5.

If v5.2 was the last release it wouldn’t be a catastrophe unlike in 2009 when Microsoft pulled the plug on the 32-bit horrible FSX that even top notch hardware struggled with.

One day I’ll probably buy MSFS but only for low-level VFR stuff. For serious flying P3D will remain my first choice.

Excellently stated. 

15 minutes ago, shermank said:

I would like google maps for the sim… but I do not think that will happen and depending upon what it would bring to the table I would consider v6.

I was reluctant to upgrade from v4 to v5, but once I did, I was completely satisfied ….. granted issues raised here and elsewhere with many solutions found. 

sherm

Be careful what you wish for. MSFS requires everyone to be on the same version and the same may be true for a LM version. That means forced updates and they’re about as popular as that human action in a spacesuit. 😉

10 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

The main issue with P3D is that most major 3rd party developer are moving to MSFS to make their $$$. Sure some will stay on P3D but the the amounts of new addons will be severely limited. So if you are happy with what you have in P3D, than it's a fine platform, It runs fine, I have no major complain with it except that it looks very dated. It's true at FL380, who cares but just the default airport in P3D compare to the quality of default airport on MSFS alone it s a big deterrent for flying in P3D. If it wasn't for the Maddog or the Dash8, I don't think I would boot up  P3D anymore. 

I have 50+ addon airports so there’s still plenty to buy. If a third-party payware airport isn’t available there are loads of free ones that span the gap between default and payware.

At default airports I concentrate on landing and the runway is just the same as payware. I then have AIG Ai to bring the place to life and GSX for jetways.

I agree with Ray. At what point are we satisfied? I bought MSFS just for the PMDG DC6 and played for a while until I missed my jet liners. Frustrated with updating instead of flying I uninstalled MSFS and went back to P3DV5.2 which has everything I really enjoy. I even reinstalled version 4.5 for the DC6 until PMDG converts it to V5. IMHO P3DV5.2 looks wonderful even for VFR with the things LM has done with lights, shadows and atmospherics. Yes it took a lot of third party developers to bring it to what it is but the point for me is I have those addons so I'm happy even if I don't have anything new to spend on. I know my fav aircraft will eventually come to MSFS but I'm not keen to purchase them a third time after FSX to P3DV4 as they are quit expensive for a retired codger. If I want to see my house I'll walk out the front door and turn around. Uh oh, the grass needs to be cut.

     I wouldn't have the slightest idea what "Skunk Works" has planned but I kind of take issue with so much people saying they only care about military and published P3D  for Rambo to rehearse for the next mission. Look at the partners list on their web site. Crenado, Fly Tampa, Aerosoft, Majestic, Latin VFR to scratch the surface. Many producers of civilian scenery.  Any countries still using P38s?  And why the Academic version if military market is their only concern?  I believe LM management feels a need to stimulate a serious interest in aviation as a contribution to the entire industry.  

    On the military angle LM did produce some of the finest civilian airliners of their time Remember the Constellation,  Martin 404 and L1011. Who knows if they plan to bring more to the sim table but if not, I for one am presently happy.

19 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Be careful what you wish for. MSFS requires everyone to be on the same version and the same may be true for a LM version. That means forced updates and they’re about as popular as that human action in a spacesuit. 😉

I have 50+ addon airports so there’s still plenty to buy. If a third-party payware airport isn’t available there are loads of free ones that span the gap between default and payware.

At default airports I concentrate on landing and the runway is just the same as payware. I then have AIG Ai to bring the place to life and GSX for jetways.

Ray, on a somewhat related question, I have been on v5.2 for about three weeks after upgrading from v4.5. Can you advise any recommendations or considerations prior to deleting v4.5? 

45 minutes ago, Patco Lch said:

I agree with Ray. At what point are we satisfied? I bought MSFS just for the PMDG DC6 and played for a while until I missed my jet liners. Frustrated with updating instead of flying I uninstalled MSFS and went back to P3DV5.2 which has everything I really enjoy. I even reinstalled version 4.5 for the DC6 until PMDG converts it to V5. IMHO P3DV5.2 looks wonderful even for VFR with the things LM has done with lights, shadows and atmospherics. Yes it took a lot of third party developers to bring it to what it is but the point for me is I have those addons so I'm happy even if I don't have anything new to spend on. I know my fav aircraft will eventually come to MSFS but I'm not keen to purchase them a third time after FSX to P3DV4 as they are quit expensive for a retired codger. If I want to see my house I'll walk out the front door and turn around. Uh oh, the grass needs to be cut.

     I wouldn't have the slightest idea what "Skunk Works" has planned but I kind of take issue with so much people saying they only care about military and published P3D  for Rambo to rehearse for the next mission. Look at the partners list on their web site. Crenado, Fly Tampa, Aerosoft, Majestic, Latin VFR to scratch the surface. Many producers of civilian scenery.  Any countries still using P38s?  And why the Academic version if military market is their only concern?  I believe LM management feels a need to stimulate a serious interest in aviation as a contribution to the entire industry.  

    On the military angle LM did produce some of the finest civilian airliners of their time Remember the Constellation,  Martin 404 and L1011. Who knows if they plan to bring more to the sim table but if not, I for one am presently happy.

LM has serious work to do on completing EA, stability (DXGIs, VRAM), and making the sim easier to develop on. Barely any third party devs use sloped runways - touted as a major feature of V5 - because they're impossible to work with. Devs are leaving in droves partly because it's so much easier to create scenery for MSFS. I'm not satisfied with paying 40% more for P3D scenery. You list off a few devs (p.s. Aerosoft? They've basically exited P3D entirely) but is anyone new jumping in? Will we ever see updated versions of major airports like LAX or JFK? FSDT is out. MSFS is garbage for high quality airliners right now, but that may not always hold. MSFS would have to basically implode for P3D to have a future. Even in that case, people would probably migrate to XP12 instead. 

10 minutes ago, Chapstick said:

LM has serious work to do on completing EA, stability (DXGIs, VRAM), and making the sim easier to develop on. Barely any third party devs use sloped runways - touted as a major feature of V5 - because they're impossible to work with. Devs are leaving in droves partly because it's so much easier to create scenery for MSFS. I'm not satisfied with paying 40% more for P3D scenery. You list off a few devs (p.s. Aerosoft? They've basically exited P3D entirely) but is anyone new jumping in? Will we ever see updated versions of major airports like LAX or JFK? FSDT is out. MSFS is garbage for high quality airliners right now, but that may not always hold. MSFS would have to basically implode for P3D to have a future. Even in that case, people would probably migrate to XP12 instead. 

Leonardo, PMDG, A2A, TFDi, Aerosoft and even Majestic software have all made commitment to MSFS.  The future looks really bright for MSFS while it looks a bit grim for P3D. Like I've said before, if you like the current state of P3D, good for you. There is nothing wrong with that but it's clear to me that LM has push the P3D to it's limit and there is certain limitation that cannot be overcome.