Xplane Next Generation (FSexpo)

[mjrhealth 822]

3 hours ago, David Mills said:

But the choppiness speaks for itself.

As mentioned see that in many online flights means nothing. If you dont like XPlane than go home, we do, and most are happy with what they are getting and the whiners will never stop. Never cant help themselves.

[abrams_tank 7,445]

3 minutes ago, GoranM said:

How noble of you to think I was talking about you.

🤦‍♂️

Please re-read my post.

You were responding to my quote.  You wrote "Personally, I cannot, for the life of me, understand why people from the MSFS forums, who keep preaching how bad X-Plane is and how great MSFS is, HAVE TO come here and scream even more, about how bad X-Plane is" directly underneath my quote.

But sure, whatever, if you weren't talking to me, then fine.

[tweekz 2,165]

53 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

There really isn't a comparison in graphics between XP11 and MSFS.  It's like comparing an F1 Formula Car to a Honda Civic.  The gap is too large.

A lot of discussion comes down to personal preference. MSFS tends to "overdo" some thing. Starting from wind reaching to graphical representation. But that does not change the fact that not much will change about the comparison between MSFS and XP.

XP relies on a solid flight model and does implement some long needed improvements like weather transition (something that MSFS does as well in cooperation with Meteoblue).

Visually MSFS is still clearly on top. The scenery alone is enough to tell. XP12 default looks pretty much like XP11 with nice trees. Even with ortho it will probably place autogen unproperly. Like trees in the middle of fields or on parking lots.

The flight model is a bit of a myth. MSFS actually also uses airflow calculations + also simulates moving air masses.

[GoranM 3,772]

1 minute ago, abrams_tank said:

You were responding to my quote.  You wrote "Personally, I cannot, for the life of me, understand why people from the MSFS forums, who keep preaching how bad X-Plane is and how great MSFS is, HAVE TO come here and scream even more, about how bad X-Plane is" directly underneath my quote.

But sure, whatever, if you weren't talking to me, then fine.

So, you don't know?

Cool.

[GoranM 3,772]

5 minutes ago, tweekz said:

A lot of discussion comes down to personal preference. MSFS tends to "overdo" some thing. Starting from wind reaching to graphical representation. But that does not change the fact that not much will change about the comparison between MSFS and XP.

XP relies on a solid flight model and does implement some long needed improvements like weather transition (something that MSFS does as well in cooperation with Meteoblue).

Visually MSFS is still clearly on top. The scenery alone is enough to tell. XP12 default looks pretty much like XP11 with nice trees. Even with ortho it will probably place autogen unproperly. Like trees in the middle of fields or on parking lots.

The flight model is a bit of a myth. MSFS actually also uses airflow calculations + also simulates moving air masses.

I'm on the verge of offering to pay someone to tell me why MSFS users keep coming here to tell us why they feel MSFS is better than X-Plane.  

No one is stopping you from enjoying your own products.  What is the attraction to the X-Plane forums, when you think it's so bad?

So far, not a single person has managed to answer this.

Edited September 27, 2021 by GoranM

[abrams_tank 7,445]

14 minutes ago, tweekz said:

A lot of discussion comes down to personal preference. MSFS tends to "overdo" some thing. Starting from wind reaching to graphical representation. But that does not change the fact that not much will change about the comparison between MSFS and XP.

XP relies on a solid flight model and does implement some long needed improvements like weather transition (something that MSFS does as well in cooperation with Meteoblue).

Visually MSFS is still clearly on top. The scenery alone is enough to tell. XP12 default looks pretty much like XP11 with nice trees. Even with ortho it will probably place autogen unproperly. Like trees in the middle of fields or on parking lots.

The flight model is a bit of a myth. MSFS actually also uses airflow calculations + also simulates moving air masses.

Yup, I agree with you on almost all points you wrote.  For me though and what I saw of the XP12 demo videos (there were multiple XP12 videos at https://www.youtube.com/c/FSElite/videos), some of the graphics enhancements are quite huge in XP12.  The water looks much more convincing now.  The lighting is much better.  And of course, the trees make a huge difference.  The 2D trees is something I really hated in past versions of XP and P3D, but they look very good in XP12.  The clouds have improved too in XP12.

Again, MSFS is still better in all these areas, except for close up trees, in which XP12 probably has the edge (at least in the demo videos of XP12, but I would like to see more trees from different parts of the world).  But I think if I give MSFS a score of 100% for graphics, I would give XP12 a score of 80% for graphics, which is quite good IMO (this excludes FPS comparisons since we don't know the benchmark FPS performance of XP12 yet).   I would give a score of 30% to XP11 for graphics (excluding the consideration of FPS).  So XP12 does look like a huge leap in graphics improvement for me so far, at least what I have seen in the demo videos.

This is based on the current videos of XP12. By XP12's release, if things improve further, I could possibly revise my perception and score of XP12 upwards.

PS. I seem to have gained a notorious reputation in the MSFS forums here at AVSIM for being negative towards XP in the past and being too pro MSFS.  So the fact that I can say that I actually like what I see from XP12, it shows the improvements that LR has made in XP12.

Edited September 27, 2021 by abrams_tank

[beep747 93]

There's a lot of trolling going on here, that's for sure. 

[scotchegg 4,220]

15 minutes ago, tweekz said:

Visually MSFS is still clearly on top

Think you need to see everything in place, in action before you can make that call. Comparing a released sim with alpha (?) shots segregated by category isn’t a good comparison. But then of course MSFS will also presumably look different by the time we see XP12.

[mjrhealth 822]

4 minutes ago, beep747 said:

There's a lot of trolling going on here, that's for sure. 

I d like to know what fish they expect to catch, but maybe MS isnt really that good so they come here to make themselves think it really is, can t see any other reason.

[GoranM 3,772]

24 minutes ago, Humpty said:

time to close this thread ? hope not

I hope not.  Unfortunately, it looks like the only solution is to suspend people from the X-Plane forums if they continue to come here and start arguments or make ridiculous comments (ie. I wish Austin realizes that X-Plane is dead and just retires).  But policing that will be a nightmare.  

[mSparks 2,091]

12 minutes ago, GoranM said:

I'm on the verge of offering to pay someone to tell me why MSFS users keep coming here to tell us why they feel MSFS is better than X-Plane.  

Im particularly impressed how many times my "these like for like XP11 vs MSFS screenshots need a lot of work, XP12 will" has been reposted now with a few words of meaningless defense of msfs that completely ignores anything discussed about XP12.

I really wasnt expecting our x bot friends to get that triggered by something that is so dated, although in retrospect I do understand why, they spent the last 12 months believing xplane needs to catch up, now they really feel the need to launch an all out defence that msfs isnt already behind before XP12 even gets to a private alpha.

And I claim my £5

[captain420 3,099]

33 minutes ago, GoranM said:

I'm on the verge of offering to pay someone to tell me why MSFS users keep coming here to tell us why they feel MSFS is better than X-Plane.  

No one is stopping you from enjoying your own products.  What is the attraction to the X-Plane forums, when you think it's so bad?

So far, not a single person has managed to answer this.

You might want to direct that question towards your boy Janov. He is quite popular in the MSFS section here. 🙂

Edited September 27, 2021 by captain420

[GoranM 3,772]

16 minutes ago, captain420 said:

You might want to direct that question towards your boy Janov. He is quite popular in the MSFS section here. 🙂

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Janov's last post in the MSFS forums was August 19, and it was nothing even remotely close to the negative posts in here.

It was actually quite helpful and informative.

So, no.  I won't ask "my boy", Janov, who lives about 20 000km away from me, and who I have only met once at the Florida FS Expo.

Edited September 27, 2021 by GoranM

[Janov 2,383]

13 minutes ago, captain420 said:

You might want to direct that question towards your boy Janov. He is quite popular in the MSFS section here. 🙂

The main reason why you don´t see me in the MSFS section anymore is because...it has gotten super boring 😉

I think the discussions I liked to take part in (mostly why MSFS is "better" than X-Plane) have waned, and folks have finally decided which simulator to use for their enjoyment and purpose.

[Pastaiolo 1,688]

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

Ok, I'll get serious without the sarcasm for a little bit.  Maybe there are some of us who simply don't care about the comparisons.  Maybe some of us are perfectly happy in our choices.  Personally, I cannot, for the life of me, understand why people from the MSFS forums, who keep preaching how bad X-Plane is and how great MSFS is, HAVE TO come here and scream even more, about how bad X-Plane is.  The only reason I can think of is they hate X-Plane so much, they want it to disappear so everyone flocks to MSFS.  This isn't going to happen.  If there is another reason, please, spill the beans.  Because I doubt I'm alone in wanting to know why there are 23 pages of debates in 2 days.

And that's your own limit, probably based on the fact that you are doing this professionally too and not just like a normal user. 

You want to know why they come here? First of all, notice how you put it into a context of "us vs them", while we are all users "simmers" 😛

They come here because it's easy to troll those who, no matter the topic, feel the need to defend their favourite platform. Ignoring them would be a much easier solution.

But it's not just trolls. a good chunk, i am sure, come here and comment because they know what XP gave them, they enjoy what they have but they also realize the limitations it has and simply want a better product all around. Can you really blame them? It's a way of venting their frustration, perhaps the reasons they left the sim for the competition even tho the competition itself had some weaknesses XP doesn't have.