43 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

The problem is exactly as you have stated it. Those wishing to use some of the addons they bought did so without the knowledge that, if they wanted to continue to use them, they could only use them in an out of date legacy sim. Or pay again for an updated version. 

Using that logic we will still all be on FSX.  No thanks.  All in favour of progress.   Any hobby, done well, is somewhat expensive.

The only reason that there's reticence over MSFS2024 is that we were 'stuck' with FSX for so long, and that became the norm. 

It isn't at all the norm in software development. The reality with FSX was that developers were constantly having to innovate new hacks and workarounds to eek what they could out of a redundant and ancient platform. 

Admittedly there's a number of 'ifs' in terms of ongoing support and use of existing add-ons etc, but on the basis that they've said they'll all work, this kind of turnover is absolutely what you want in software development.

A lot of histrionics, wild assumptions and passing them off as facts, etc etc.  Also, a bunch of info/answers are already in this thread and others yet people don't read anything and keep asking and worrying about the same Qs :).  In any case, I'll just re-iterate some points:

1) MS/Asobo never said that for 10+ years we'll keep getting free updates and we don't ever have to change the version of the base sim or pay for new ones. What they did say and reiterate multiple times after that is they are *committed* to MSFS, the franchise, and plan to stick around for a long time in developing it, enhancing it, and keep progressing it.  Even the "10" year thing was clarified multiple times afterwards to mean a "long" time, i.e. where Seb jokes how he expects MSFS to keep going even after he retires. 737 NG Driver also explains this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvJ_6r_6FWc

2) Just because this very first (of very many probably) teaser trailer meant for an XBox gaming showcase audience, shows and highlights only the missions DOES NOT therefore then mean those are the *only* new features/enhancements coming in MSFS 2024. It was already evident in the trailer the core engine has improvements. And recently Phil Spencer touched on 2024 improvements briefly in https://youtu.be/ZszOBVoREVg?t=8535 where he said graphics, weather, flight dynamics have all received improvements big enough to warrant a new release (i.e. the tornado in the trailer is actually simulated weather and atmosphere... also evident in the trailer is rising smoke that expands and distributes naturally in the atmosphere, seasons, 3d trees, foliage being impacted by local/nearby airflow, higher DEM and resolutions textures, etc etc). It is very likely that Asobo will be showcasing and diving deeper into all 2024 improvements in the coming days, likely by FSExpo time.

3) The oft shouted argument since the trailer has been: "well they should be fixing important core sim issues in 2020 rather than working on 2024!!" ... well, firstly they have a huge team and budget, so they can be doing multiple things at once. Secondly, core sim improvements *are* going into 2024 as per 2). Thirdly, how do you know the other core sim problem areas like ground handling, ATC, etc are not being worked on for release in 2024? Especially when MS/Asobo have stated multiple times in previous Q&As that they have started on reworking these areas? Is it not prudent to at least wait to hear about all the 2024 improvements before concluding the worst case scenarios?

4) The FAQ goes a long way to quell the worries about add-ons compatibility, and how they plan to support "virtually all" existing add-ons, and enforce MP add-ons to work in 2024 and not be charged extra.  Given such rules and enforcements, it therefore means the SDK and development frameworks are not changing radically. It also more crucially means that non-MP add-ons should also have no issues in being transferred over to 2024. Yes, if you really want to be paranoid and assume the worst, you can sit here breaking your head about how non-MP add-on devs are going to charge for the 2024 version etc etc.. but please, step back, think of the larger picture, that's just business suicide... and go by the words of devs who've already spoken up to say that any required updates will be free (PMDG, Fenix, FSReborn, Aerosoft, etc). As many of them rightly conclude, this should no different than making add-on updates between SU to SU for example.

5) Nobody has to blindly believe the PR departments of MS/Asobo obviously, but at the very least wait to hear more details from the Asobo devs themselves, see in-sim previews, etc before setting your hair on fire.

6) Another non-sensical claim by some is "oh no! they are making it more of a GAME by doing X, Y, & Z", i.e. missions ... so just because casual or more serious entertainment features are being added that therefore means the flight realism features are somehow magically or intentionally being reduced?? (and on an aside, these missions are not casual gamer stuff, it has to do with actual real-world aviation). It is yet another wild assumption to make, and it is not an either/or. Nowhere has it been confirmed that sim realism is being reduced on purpose, or that the features we have gotten so far in 2020 are being reduced or scaled back or whatever. And I'll just refer to 2) above again, you cannot just go by a first of many teaser trailer that happened to focus only on missions.

7) Nowhere have they said a subscription model is coming.. yet another long standing wild (and very wrong) assumption.

8 ) If it ends up being the case that some/most/all the long-standing core sim issues are only addressed in 2024, and that 2024 strives to make existing add-ons work seamlessly or with little change (as per the FAQ), and that 2024 is a superset of 2020 with non-trivial or significant updates for new tech (why would they intentionally remove 2020 features in 2024?), then is that really a bad situation if the only negative then is to pay $60/$90/$120 more to get the 2024 base sim? 

 

Edited June 13, 20232 yr by lwt1971

I don’t know why I keep coming back to this thread, it just makes me angry. Sucker for punishment I guess.

49 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

The problem is exactly as you have stated it. Those wishing to use some of the addons they bought did so without the knowledge that, if they wanted to continue to use them, they could only use them in an out of date legacy sim. Or pay again for an updated version. 

They declared that support to MSFS will continue and the 10-year commitment will be honored. MSFS will not be out of date, it will keep getting updates.

FS2024 will just have new aircraft, animations, 3D models and missions. It won't be a whole new game/engine, how could they say that add-ons will be 100% compatible otherwise? The trailer still has the black horizon line, no ray tracing, same textures, clouds, water and PG. Come on... it's just the old MSFS with some embellishment.

If you are not interested in the new content you can continue using MSFS and enjoy regular sim/world updates, bug fixes and the 2+ PB of online data for free.

This is what MS declared. IF they don't deliver on their promises and abandon MSFS in 2024, then we can criticize them for that, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt. What's NOT realistic to ask is that they don't work on new remunerative projects at the same time, and continue to work 100% on a game that was released 3 years ago and whose revenues are inevitably declining.

59 minutes ago, orchestra_nl said:

The problem is that MS/Asobo could stop development for FS2020 in favour of FS2024.
While MS/Asobo's commitment for 10 years did not mention versions at all we assumed that it was meant for the same product.

See my reply above. 

Reminder we may (not confirmed, this is speculation) get a small about of more info during the X-Box Extended showcase at 12:30 eastern.

But I believe at last years Extended showcase they had Jorg on.

Edited June 13, 20232 yr by Tuskin38

1 hour ago, Tuskin38 said:

There are still people there playing FS2002/2004 because that’s where all their addons are.

There will probably still be people playing 2020 after 2024 comes out.

The obvious difference is those were completely self-contained products did not require MS servers at on-going expense to them to keep them operating at their full potential. 

1 minute ago, odourboy said:

The obvious difference is those were completely self-contained products did not require MS servers at on-going expense to them to keep them operating at their full potential. 

2020 and 2024 probably share some of the same server.

It's also very cheap to run according to Microsoft themselves.

Edited June 13, 20232 yr by Tuskin38

Just now, Tuskin38 said:

2020 and 2024 probably share some of the same server.

It's also very cheap to run according to Microsoft themselves.

But not free.

Just now, odourboy said:

But not free.

So? They said they'll keep supporting 2020 post 2024 launch.

Just now, Tuskin38 said:

So? They said they'll keep supporting 2020 post 2024 launch.

But there's a cost and it's ongoing without direct revenue generation. My point on the emphasis on missions in 2024 is to divert traffic from servers. Prove me wrong. 😉 

4 minutes ago, odourboy said:

But not free.

Translation: "I will choose to worry and seek the bleak and negative no matter what anyone says"

1 minute ago, Tuskin38 said:

So? They said they'll keep supporting 2020 post 2024 launch.

Sure, knowing by experience how reliable their servers are with FS20, difficult to imagine that anything could go wrong with the same servers having two sims to distribute at the same time. Piece of cake.  

1 hour ago, orchestra_nl said:

[..] we were lead to believe our addons would be usable in a sim that is in active development for the next decade.

You're reaching. No one really said that. You'll have a working sim, with all of your purchased content, that is supported for 10+ years, without fearing online services get shut down.

No one ever implied that the sim will receive free feature and content updates for this long time. Before the sim came out, who really expected post-launch development to be this active? Compared to other games and other simulator products out there, we seem to be in quite goods hands now. This level of support is quite rare in the industry.

So in my opinion, it's perfectly alright for them to stop active development of FS2020 after four years. This is more than we could have ever hoped for, and something that was never promised nor implied to begin with. That the journey continues with FS2024 and its announced backwards compatibility is remarkable.

5 minutes ago, Krakin said:

Translation: "I will choose to worry and seek the bleak and negative no matter what anyone says"

Translation: "Realist"