2 minutes ago, BrammyH said:

None of those are available on Xbox. PMDG is. Reading between the tea leaves, a lot of the challenge was creating an EFB that had the external connections that will also work on Xbox.

Heh, imagine the irony of the mighty PMDG becoming a second rate developer on the flight sim scene, because they had to cater for the Xbox users

3 minutes ago, Sethos said:

Heh, imagine the irony of the mighty PMDG becoming a second rate developer on the flight sim scene, because they had to cater for the Xbox users

The new " Carenado"   😉

1 minute ago, Sethos said:

cater for the Xbox users

I think the WASM stuff introduced aleviated some of those issues. As well as resolution of self-inflicted wounds. Those Xbox users, as much as they offend our sense of elegance, are a huge market. Being the only decent, modern, airliner on Xbox should generate a ton of sales. That money can be used to fund other projects. I don't fault them one bit for chasing that revenue.

I also work in project management and I can't cast any stones for delays. One project i am on, we thought we would finish quickly by 9/30. Well, we are, but 9.30 next year. We hit a lot of weird issues early that impacted the timeline a lot.

2 minutes ago, Sethos said:

Heh, imagine the irony of the mighty PMDG becoming a second rate developer on the flight sim scene, because they had to cater for the Xbox users

In no way would that be a good development (pun intended).

We have the market leader in contemporary Boeing add-ons showing all the actions of a mid- to lower-rate developer.
Aside from Bluebird (making the 757 and 767) and iFly (737 MAX), both of whom are of unknown quality and yet to deliver in MSFS, Boeing products aren't in boundary-pushing territory at the moment.

Basically they still live up to their name and reputation back in the P3D and FSX days when their products were top notch and almost incomparable.

 

25 minutes ago, BrammyH said:

Being the only decent, modern, airliner on Xbox should generate a ton of sales.

Is that true? From what I've heard XBOX marketplace sales in general are quite disappoiting. I figure XBOX users either don't want to spend a dime for a game they'll only occasionally play (-> casual) or that the XBOX is just not the the right platform to enjoy a high fidelity airliner. I'm quite sure at the end of the day PMDG's focus on the XBOX will have been a huge deficitary decision; I mean basically all their development problems (737 being two years late, EFB etc.) can be traced back to their decision to fully stay inside the MSFS sandbox and not use external tools in order to keep it XBOX compatible. The XBOX sales will not make up for what they could have earned if they went down the other way and maybe already would have their 777 and 747 out, entirely dominating the MSFS airliner market with their pockets full.

1 minute ago, Fiorentoni said:

Is that true? From what I've heard XBOX marketplace sales in general are quite disappoiting. I figure XBOX users either don't want to spend a dime for a game they'll only occasionally play (-> casual) or that the XBOX is just not the the right platform to enjoy a high fidelity airliner. I'm quite sure at the end of the day PMDG's focus on the XBOX will have been a huge deficitary decision; I mean basically all their development problems (737 being two years late, EFB etc.) can be traced back to their decision to fully stay inside the MSFS sandbox and not use external tools in order to keep it XBOX compatible. The XBOX sales will not make up for what they could have earned if they went down the other way and maybe already would have their 777 and 747 out, entirely dominating the MSFS airliner market with their pockets full.

Where did you get your data from,. that X box sales are disappointing. First time I have heard that. A link would be good.

Just now, Bobsk8 said:

Where did you get your data from,. that X box sales are disappointing. First time I have heard that. A link would be good.

No data and no link, sorry, that's why I've said "I've heard". It was two or even three people (devs IIRC) on different occasions hinting at this or even straight out saying "I'm disappointed with how my product sells on the XBox". There are many casual XBox users, but many of them use the gamepass only and are therefore not financially invested into MSFS. On PC it's the other way around.

Maybe some actual dev here can be more concrete than what I can say, sorry.

39 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

Boeing products aren't in boundary-pushing territory at the moment.

Absolutely agree with this.  The PMDG 737 series for me are addons that are in my regular airliner rotation, they offer an enjoyable, reliable flight experience, but it’s been a long time since PMDG was at the forefront of innovation.  They’ve really fallen behind the innovation curve of other devs…that doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy their products, but they’re certainly not doing anything ground breaking like they used to.

OK, let's get back to the topic--the latest PMDG 737 update.

I've been a long-time ardent supporter of PMDG's work, but I do have to say that the regression we've been seeing over several updates with this add-on in MSFS is pretty disappointing. 

I really do wish I'd backed up 3.0.65 before updating...I've never had to take those kinds of precautions with PMDG stuff before, as they were very quick to fix major problems in the past.  The saving grace is I still have a very stable P3D version to fall back on for the 737.  Guess I'll be heading back to the A310 in more of my MSFS sessions.

FYI, 3.0.65 is the installer version on PMDG site under your account. .

Edited July 21, 20232 yr by Wise87

6 minutes ago, regis9 said:

They’ve really fallen behind the innovation curve of other devs..

Thats because they spent the first 18 months pointing the finger at Asobo instead of putting their heads down and getting on with it like other developers did. You reap what you soe.

In saying that though I fly the 737 VFR in VR and and its quite good for what i use it for. 

Edited July 21, 20232 yr by Garys

1 hour ago, LRBS said:

I agree with your assessment that this approach will harm the business. RSR seems to be ignoring clear evidence, avoiding problem-solving, and making immature excuses like claiming they don't see the issues.

I find it concerning that someone like RSR, who is highly regarded as an exceptional pilot would adopt such an approach toward his beloved hobby.

The 'clear evidence' is that they're making a killing on MSFS that doesn't even compare to P3D/FSX, as by their own statement and that of numerous other developers. What they're doing is prioritizing bringing all their products to the new platform, as more products = more profit, which in itself is the only reasonable thing to do for a business, so can't fault them for that. As much as we hope they iron out some stuff that needs attention, the number of sales that not catering to these issues is going to cost because some people may stop buying a new product is miniscule in relation to the sales it garners nevertheless across the whole market.

In the end, it's a tough place right now for us as we'd like to see some stuff being given attention to, while that however doesn't make much sense for the company at this point. I'm personally well aware I'm probably going to have to wait quite some time for roll behavior improvements, for example, as unfortunate as that is.

I also feel this thread is getting carried away again with over the top negativity though, so as much as I hate some of the stuff that's not right I can also appreciate that it's still a darn good aircraft addon. Balance and perspective.

Edited July 21, 20232 yr by threegreen

737-700 was my first foray in to PMDG products, I must say, with the delay to the EFB, the choppy animations, the awful LNAV. I won't be buying the 777.

21 hours ago, DavidP said:

Then everyone would be bashing them because it's unrealistic. They can't win whatever they do. 

Yea it amazes me.. They have done more and communicated more than any other developer out there.  And they take a lot of heat from the critics out there.