1 hour ago, ryanbatc said:

Oh I thought there was an option to enter it either way?  I think in the WT avionics you CAN enter it that way too...  origin, dest, then enroute fixes.  I guess I've always just entered it in order that makes sense to me.

If there is an option.. I have not found it in the PMS unit..

Does it has Working Title Technology support for visual approaches at every airports in the game and map view in utilities as the PMS?

Edited March 1, 20242 yr by Ixoye

28 minutes ago, Ixoye said:

Does it has Working Title Technology support for visual approaches at every airports in the game and map view in utilities as the PMS?

I can't speak for "every airport in the game" since I haven't looked at them all, but it has visual approaches at all the airports I have used, including small airports without any IFR procedures.

I don't see any "map view" in utilities, probably because that is not in the real GTN750. It of course does have the regular map screen with your flight plan course. What does "map view" provide that the regular map screen does not?

Al

Edited March 1, 20242 yr by ark

3 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

While the G5000 has the labels origin, enroute, and destination, and the gtn doesn't - the entries are still the same order.

I am more familiar with the G3000 and it also lists origin,enroute, and destination. 

It seems that the PMS GTN operates like the G3000... it offers to "add an enroute waypoint" on the FPL page.  The TDS GTN offers to "add a waypoint", which is added to the end of the flightplan and is now the new destination.

This is a different way of doing things..  The G3000 has way more buttons / choices when editing the flightplan.. you can choose to edit the destination for example. 

The TDS GTN and the PMS GTN do not operate the same in this regard... Not sure if there is a software version of the GTN that makes it operate like a G3000.. I sure have never seen it..

Edited March 1, 20242 yr by Bert Pieke

instant buy of upgrade for me. I abandoned PMS after my first  year of subscription ended 12 moths ago for the TDS. Never regretted it

All of this made me want to fly in the C414 again so I could have two units in front of me. What a truly great aircraft it is! I don't know why I haven't flown it for so long. 

8 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

Absolutely.  I frequently fly to airports without IAPs.  Navigraph doesn't include private strips that I know of... there may be a few exceptions though.

Did a quick check in LNM - if you search all airports in MSFS you get ~41k airports, use Navigraph for ALL features reduces that down to ~16k. Approximately 2000 of the airports not showing in Navigraph have runways over 5000ft in length. You are correct though that it definately has airports without procedures (or charts for that matter). That said I would assume you could add them into the unit as you could on the trainer with the Garmin database?

Just to comment on what yourself & @Bert Pieke were discussing regarding the PMS - it's not up to the level of the current G3000 in terms of abilities - the two examples I would use (both of which are not the case in the trainer or the WT G3000): You can't set or adjust altitude restrictions on an approach (normally I like to change the "above" on the FAF to a "at") & If you load an approach without a STAR you are unable to delete the destination airport above the approach (without deleting the approach) - in effect you can't automatically sequence onto an approach (without flying over the airport), although nothing to stop you activating it as you hit the last waypoint .. ..

Still pro's & con's to both units, but I will probably jump in on the TDS as well now .. ..

G

Edited March 1, 20242 yr by Gazzareth

I just posted this on their Discord. I thought I would re-post here, as I was a person who kept trying to ask what was different between the two units:

I purchased the product after using the PMS50 product for a long time. I did so because of the Navigraph integration and all the praise this software gets. To be honest, I was unsure until I watched a YouTube video with someone showing the way the unit looks when in use. I found the graphical/detail/display capability differences (improvements, really) over the PMS unit to be significant enough that I purchased it.

I just did a quick flight in the BKSQ KA350 from KDEN to KASE, a routing which always worked but seemed to be somewhat challenging for the PMS unit to sequence. With the TDS GTNXi, it just worked as I would have intuitively expected. I used the unit through the software rather than in the cockpit, as I like having a spot on my second monitor where I can look, rather than having to look around and orient myself correctly in front of the screen when using a cockpit unit. Thankfully, I found someone online who explained that I needed to remove the tds-gtnxi-gauge folder from my Community folder to allow this to happen. It also allowed me to have the PMS unit running in the cockpit at the same time and to be able to compare and contrast the visual differences. I made sure not to use the PMS unit to affect the aircraft, and I'm very happy with the purchase.

Thank you for your hard work.

PS - I have subsequently learned from @LesOReilly that I can keep the tds-gtnxi-gauge folder in my Community folder so that some aircraft detect the presence of a GPS unit. You need to create an empty text file calles "Standalone.txt" in the C:\ProgramData\TDS\GTNXi folder. I am going to keep that in mind, but not implement it yet so that I can continue to run the PMS unit in parallel. I will likely use the TDS unit for the vast majority of needs and then the PMS unit for a few added features (weather, NEXRAD, smaller airfields, Bing maps) when needed.

I wonder if those 5000 ft airports are private strips or what?  That seems odd to not include 5000 ft public airports.  That would be an issue on the navigraph end of course.  

I looked on my.vfr sectional chart last night and found a totally random area that is very rural and navigraph had 2 tiny airstrips in the data - neither with IAPs, and one was a 2300 ft grass strip and the other a 2100 ft paved.

A 2100 ft strip is super short for a public airport so I'm surprised the data would exclude 5000 ft strips IF it was public.

Thanks @mmcmah for that info, my one gripe with the PMS version has been flightplan weirdness with approaches etc and sequencing as you mention, I might have to give this a go.

4 minutes ago, regis9 said:

Thanks @mmcmah for that info, my one gripe with the PMS version has been flightplan weirdness with approaches etc and sequencing as you mention, I might have to give this a go.

Yes, I have had many frustrations with that! And there's weirdness about whether it's a WTT enabled plane, and that works one way, and then when not in a WTT plane, it works a different way, and keeping the two figured out and knowing what to do with the quirks is frustrating. On top of that, the fact that you sometimes need to overfly an airport before the approach will activate... This felt a lot easier!

2 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

I wonder if those 5000 ft airports are private strips or what?  That seems odd to not include 5000 ft public airports.  That would be an issue on the navigraph end of course.  

Hard to say, it's worldwide though - some could be places that have shut (although on the flip side Navigraph should have new airports that may not be in FS).

I would hazard a guess that there is a variety of reasons, possibly some military? Not sure if you can output the list, that would be useful to compare & see..

G

 

 

Yeah you wouldn't be flying into military only bases as a civilian unless an emergency existed.  It's possible navigraph doesn't have the data for them though.  I'll have to look.  Or it could be a lot of airports in China where there is no data.

1 hour ago, ryanbatc said:

Yeah you wouldn't be flying into military only bases as a civilian unless an emergency existed.  It's possible navigraph doesn't have the data for them though.  I'll have to look.  Or it could be a lot of airports in China where there is no data.

Actually try this, complete list of missing ones over with over 5000ft runways (that's an arbitary figure chosen by me btw) - not all military, different countries, different surfaces, total of 2750..

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10dhilTmn9jDpQ7Hlc84RcPm9XdY39t_izxFffv_hI98/edit?usp=sharing

 

G

 

Edit: Looking at the UK most seem to be military / ex-military or closed. There are at least a couple that are still going though EGEC & EGNE are two I spotted.

Edit again:: Both EGEC & EGNE dropped out due to different runway lengths in Navigraph & MSFS .. ..

Edited March 1, 20242 yr by Gazzareth
More info

After fumbling around for quite some time, I did manage to install the PRO version. Even though I've read every post in this thread, I was still surprised that I had to buy it for an additional cost ($26.95 USD) on top of the TDS license. I guess it'll be worth it in the end, considering how much I use TDN.

Having done that, as well as updated the TDS via the manager app, then updated the navdata for the GTN using Navigraph Hub, I was good to go. I found the installation process a bit convoluted. 

Having updated navdata for the GTN is of course an amazing feature, although I was a bit disappointed that ZLZY/ZDOO Zhangye Ganzhou Airport is missing from the GTN 😉 It's possible to start from the airport in MSFS. I wanted to show my daughter the Zhangye Danxia National Park from the analog Caravan 🙂 Oh well I booted up Navigraph Charts with moving maps on, then did some "advanced navigation procedure" in conjunction with Google Maps. 

Sadly, the amazing colour palette of Zhangye Danxia (a geological wonder of the world) seems to be missing from Bing Maps. Nevertheless, the mountains in the region does look surprisingly detailed. 

 Reference: The Rainbow Mountains Of China Are Earth's Paint Palette

PS: Sorry for going a bit off topic...

Edited March 2, 20242 yr by Cpt_Piett