I wonder how smart all these passengers are walking down the jetway.

Be cool if they were all controlled AI bots with their own AI personality / accent etc. Capable of walking onto the plane and seamlessly finding their seat and sitting down. And followed by conversations between one another.

Oh yea and they react accordingly to the good or erratic flying of the pilots. Meaning bad flying will cause real fear and then yelling and screaming!  FS2024 as real as it gets, AI style.

44 minutes ago, pinepix62 said:

I think that is a custom scenery showing what is possible, I do not expect to see any of that in the remote areas like Southern Africa and PNG where I like to fly. 🙄

That’s what ya’ll said when the original MSFS2020 trailer droped, but nothing was handcrafted and the game looks exactly like all those trailers.

And if you remember what have been said before by MS or Asobo about MSFS2024, it clearly indicates that what we are seeing in the trailer is autogenerated worlwide…Jorg even once said… « You land in a random place in MSFS 2024 and it looks like Forza »

3 hours ago, Rimshot said:

Well of course not. Deer don't fly. As a matter of fact, neither do carpets 😁

Post of the year 🙂

 

2 hours ago, Kassu62 said:

MSFS2020 have very good looking water and planes, but no water phycis. It seems that MSFS2024 do not have either? Water is allways calm flat. Waves have absolute not effect to the planes or boats.

Not true. look at the sea rescue part of the trailer again and you'll see one of the smaller boats bobbing like crazy. the effect of waves on larger vessels like the one half submerged is more subtle.

The trailer looks amazing. I’m especially impressed by the improved vegetation and the tessellation ground textures. The fields look so much more realistic now.

Countryside photogrammetry such as in the Monument Valley scene with the new tree replacement tech look fantastic too. I wonder how many areas will be this detailed.

I’m also looking forward to the career mode. I hope they will give us more details at Flight Sim Expo.

11 minutes ago, Shack95 said:

I wonder how many areas will be this detailed.

I think it is down to how detailed the Bing photography and elevation data is for the AI that controls the "2D out of 3D" to work with.

I think it looks absolutely incredible.

I only hope it runs on my absolute potato of a PC which I can't afford to upgrade...

Does anyone know what the system requirements are likely to be?

Also with regard to the "GTA style" open world - train simulator did this with the transition to Train Sim World and I think this works really well and adds a whole new level of immersion.

Edited June 11, 20241 yr by Tom Wright

On 6/10/2024 at 2:55 PM, lwt1971 said:

What Seedy also posted in the official forums about missions/career simming in MSFS 2024:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/msfs2024-november-19th-2024/644877/136
The career mode activities are very much designed for “the simmer”. Everything you can do in career mode will be a simulation of a real-world flight operation conducted daily by actual professional working pilots, not a “game-like” fictional activity like flying through imaginary floating rings or whatever. Our team has worked very closely with actual organizations which conduct these flight operations such as search & rescue, coast guard, aerial firefighting, and more to ensure Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 simulates these ops in the most accurate and true-to-life manner.
 

6 hours ago, Krakin said:

any newbie players thinking they'll be able to just hop in and do what they saw in the trailer will be in for a rude awakening. Jorg himself said there will be a robust tutorial system in place because the career stuff is indeed going to be authentic. Now that being said, we need to cut the "arcade" nonsense out and stop acting like real pilots all over the world are just playing games when they wake up to do these things. This isn't like Call of Duty where you get shot in the head then recover all of your health by not getting hit again for 5 seconds. In order to do the serch and rescue missions in 2024, you will have to be a good helicopter pilot that can quickly hover the aircraft and operate in tight spaces. To be a good crop duster you will have to develop skills to fly at very low altidues. The Career mode is going to be the most realistic thing about MSFS 2024.

I think we have a few confused people on both sides of the MSFS camp. You see, in the past it was simple. Study level simmers (purists if you like) hankered for complex procedures, checklists and triple checked flight plans while salivating over the intricacies of the FMC, pondering what failure might be presenting itself as hertz fluctuate + or minus 20 at FL380 in Etops territory, flicking through the QRH just in case and all the while following the magenta line. Meanwhile, the Xboxers (not fair because some are using PC's) hanker for the CTRL-E of anything that doesn't take two hours to get going and even less to learn!  And yet the quotes above seem to suggest our young (or recent) simmers are actually going to have to do some study and less fun stuff if they want to get through these new true to life, most realistic missions.   Well, I say you both have that wrong. If 2020 is anything to go by, these missions will simply require easy to fly default aircraft and the challenge will be in the task difficulty vs time available to do it. That is it will require repeated attempts before you learn the 'trick' that unlocks the next level.  That's where the fun is and that's the nicotine that keeps people coming back to it. The true to life and realism that you both suggest is simply about the format of the activity ie fire fighting, rescue missions, rather than "flying through imaginary floating rings"! I'd be very surprised if anyone had to learn detailed aspects of electrical, pneumatic, hydraulic and fuel systems to fly these missions or even how to start the engines.   

But wait, there is another possibility to this most accurate, true to life and realistic MSFS 2024. Did I see a boat actual rolling with the waves? Did I see some stretchy harnesses (which will no doubt snap if you chaff them on something) and some wind playing havoc with rotor wash on bushes and waves? Did I see balloons with physics? Did I see some people walking about? Maybe some deer or two in the bush etc etc? Well let's be absolutely realistic here. Without these improvements, MSFS 'career mode' would be somewhat flat compared to a lot of other games out there. These improvements had to be done. XBoxer's are actually more demanding of this type of stuff than dinosaur flight sim purists.   

All of this we take for gospel from Asobo but it raises questions about the authenticity of some of their statements. Not that their lying, but rather just being a bit ambiguous. 

 

QUOTE:

The development team is improving almost every aspect of the simulator.

Really? On this basis I can expect good ATC phraseology and instructions. I mean, it's a flight simulator right? (Not holding my breath).

 

Some examples include: 

Improved multithreading to improve performance 

Faster download, load, and installation speeds 

These two simply improve the user interface experience or at least don't make it worse and as we all know this is based around Xbox requirements. They do not improve on or develop any further a sim activity such as ATC.

 

Improved aerodynamics and physics simulation 

There has to be real value to the flight simulator in this area but I suggest it is as a byproduct of the need to create this primarily for the most 'realistic' Career mode. 

 

Improved aircraft systems including electrical, pneumatic, fuel, and hydraulics 

Can someone tell me what this actually means? Fenix, PMDG, Leonardo and a number of other developers seem to have delivered very good renditions of these systems in 2020? What is there to improve? I suspect it is responding to developers requirements in the SDK rather than Asobo default aircraft coming with more complex systems which would seem counter intuitive with the audience MS is marketing to.  Put more simply, is this improvement directed at developers of study level aircraft, to make them even more complex? 

 

New failure and wear & tear system 

Again, I suspect this is a by-product of the Career mode rather than area of improvement in flight simulation, although some use can no  doubt be made of it.   

 

Deeper and wider avionics systems

Now we are talking real aeroplane stuff, but what does this mean? How much wider or deeper can we go? Career mode again?  That FLIR, that tac rail, that specialist piece of electronic equipment required for some mission?  Not bad if it is since this by-product can then be developed into payware offerings. 

 

Cockpit tablet available by default 

Was always miffed the Wright Flyer didn't have one! 

 

Its been an interesting discussion so  far and clearly two camps. Those who want to stay with a free roam 'flight' simulator and those who want to move forward with a career mode 'world' simulator based around flight (...for the meantime anyway). As Raul says "the old fashion way of flight simulators like FS95 / FSX needs to become a thing of the past, buried deeper than dinosaurs are......" You must stop sugar coating things Raul! 😁) . As a respected commercial developer who sees opportunities, Raul's comment would suggest the battle for the latter is already won and indeed most of what I have mentioned  above simply confirms the old type of flight simulator is pretty well on its way out even though no one is saying that too loudly at Asobo. Unless you subscribe to the conversation that Raul had with Sebastion which seems to confirm a liking for the concept of switching vehicles like in GTA. On that basis Raul, may I be your beta tester for the B727. I will swap out to my parachute vehicle and jump out the aft air stair. But please, if you ever do get this B727 underway, don't make it like the aircraft in GTA!!  

QUOTE from Raul:

I specifically asked Sebastian from Asobo face to face last year at FSExpo Houston to enable this feature, and the words I used and he used were "like GTA?".. and I said yes, like GTA. now you might think immediately into arcade, you might think this is gamish.. but that is just because you are failing to see the bigger picture, having the opportunity to switch vehicles like GTA does, open the gates of MSFS to a world full of features, with the SDK expanding its capabilities beyond it current limits.

 

Finally, bring on MSFS 2024 and lets see if by end of that cycle, we have finally reached space flight. After chasing herds of wild Wildebeest over the veld in my balloon, I will feel the need, the need for speed in one of Elon Musk's tin cans to Mars.  And while I sit there for three years (with TOD on pause in case I miss the important part), without a Magenta line you might think I would be bored silly. But no. I will of course be preoccupied with that fluctuating 400 hz and why ETOPS doesn't seem to apply between Earth and Mars. 

 

Cheers

Terry

15 minutes ago, Krakin said:

I think it is down to how detailed the Bing photography and elevation data is for the AI that controls the "2D out of 3D" to work with.

If I understand it correctly Grand Canyon is proper photogrammetry (15cm), based on imagery taken from different angles by airplanes, and „2D out of 3D“ is mesh made from satellite data (up to 50cm). That‘s not the same, is it? The latter sounds more like good DEM, like we already have in some regions. Could be wrong though. 

11 minutes ago, Shack95 said:

If I understand it correctly Grand Canyon is proper photogrammetry (15cm), based on imagery taken from different angles by airplanes, and „2D out of 3D“ is mesh made from satellite data (up to 50cm). That‘s not the same, is it? The latter sounds more like good DEM, like we already have in some regions. Could be wrong though. 

2D out of 3D is implemented to service parts of the world that do not have photogrammetry coverage.

12 minutes ago, Krakin said:

2D out of 3D is implemented to service parts of the world that do not have photogrammetry coverage.

That‘s what I thought. I big step forward no doubt but I was wondering how many photogrammetry countryside areas we will see in MSFS 2024. So far we know about Monument Valley and Grand Canyon. That scene in the trailer with the sailplane seems to be PG as well. 

8 hours ago, MarcG said:

I wonder if the extra detail we're seeing in the clips (Airports with people & staff, bush plane with grass & animals etc) are all hand placed items for Scenarios so essentially "handcrafted areas".

Or preferably that's what the world will be like all over, AI placed items so every airport has "life" of some sort. It'll be interesting to see for sure.

they're using machine learning and procedural generation to add trees and rocks and other stuff. They talk about it in the FSExpo 2023

4 hours ago, Kassu62 said:

MSFS2020 have very good looking water and planes, but no water phycis. It seems that MSFS2024 do not have either? Water is allways calm flat. Waves have absolute not effect to the planes or boats.

You can see waves effecting boats in in the trailer at 1:15

3 hours ago, pinepix62 said:

I think that is a custom scenery showing what is possible, I do not expect to see any of that in the remote areas like Southern Africa and PNG where I like to fly. 🙄

I don't think it's custom based on what they've said in the past, but it will probably depend on the resolution of the satellite imagery for the AI to create that kind of quality.

1 hour ago, Tom Wright said:

I think it looks absolutely incredible.

I only hope it runs on my absolute potato of a PC which I can't afford to upgrade...

Does anyone know what the system requirements are likely to be?

Also with regard to the "GTA style" open world - train simulator did this with the transition to Train Sim World and I think this works really well and adds a whole new level of immersion.

It's still running on the same generation of Xbox as 2020, so I can't see the system requirements changing that much. I'm guessing they found some more room for optimization.

Edited June 11, 20241 yr by Tuskin38

13 minutes ago, Tuskin38 said:

they're using machine learning and procedural generation to add trees and rocks and other stuff. They talk about it in the FSExpo 2023

I remember the pebble talk 😆

13 hours ago, rjquick said:

Well, it looks like it is a victory for those that wanted Flight Simulator to be turned into an arcade game. Congratulations. I hope you score high points for rescuing little Johnny from the cliff, perhaps even get 'high score'. In real life, you have to seriously learn how to operate an aircraft before you go off and fly any missions. I notice they show a lot of fancy arcade game graphics of 'missions', but don't say much about actually learning how to operate an aircraft. I'm guessing you'll be able to hop in that helicopter and be out scoring rescue points in an hour or less. Just like the real world.

You must be fun at parties.

2 hours ago, Lord Farringdon said:

Its been an interesting discussion so  far and clearly two camps. Those who want to stay with a free roam 'flight' simulator and those who want to move forward with a career mode 'world' simulator based around flight (...for the meantime anyway). As Raul says "the old fashion way of flight simulators like FS95 / FSX needs to become a thing of the past, buried deeper than dinosaurs are......" You must stop sugar coating things Raul! 😁) . As a respected commercial developer who sees opportunities, Raul's comment would suggest the battle for the latter is already won and indeed most of what I have mentioned  above simply confirms the old type of flight simulator is pretty well on its way out even though no one is saying that too loudly at Asobo.

Your points are well taken, but I just want to add a few misc points of my own:

• The main crux of those upset about trailer #1 and #2 (once again important to note that both were meant for XBox gaming showcase event audiences) seems to be that MS/Asobo are *only* focusing on missions, whereas that is clearly not the case since they have gone out of their to clarify things at last year's FS Expo and afterwards re: all the core simulation aspects being improved. They have also said these missions are not some gimmicky experiences but based on real life aviation activities and consulting with the respective pros in those fields. So at the very least the *intent* of MS/Asobo in doing a wide variety of improvements should be clear by now.
• Now it is absolutely fair to not make assumptions about how well/accurate they're going to implement all these improvements until we get more details, and realistically not until we get the sim in our hands (proof in the pudding and all that)
• Their team size is huge now, and the investment by MS is sizeable, so they are able to focus multiple aspects of flight simulation and aviation simulation in MSFS 2024
• I don't at all think there is a "battle" here, and one side winning vs the other.. the purist simmers can still keep using MSFS 2024 as they were before MSFS 2020 and other sims, and not care one bit or use the new aviation activities/missions. Expanding the scope of flight simulation is a win win for all, since it's not coming at the expense of something pre-existing that's being removed or lessened
• Re: what aircraft can be used with aviation activities, yes that still remains to be clarified. But even if they were default aircraft I'd be quite fine with that if they were of similar fidelity of certain default aircraft like the SR22, Citation Longitude, A310, 787, CJ4, etc. Of course if it's with default aircraft of the same quality as initially released with MSFS 2020 then that's a no thanks from me. But we know MS/Asobo are striving to increase the fidelity of the default fleet to unprecedented levels.
• Almost certainly MSFS 2024 is going to be a superset of MSFS 2020 (in terms of fidelity/capability/etc for the end user I mean.. of course a bunch of stuff is getting enhanced/rewritten under the hood).. no way are they intentionally going to remove functionality, or lessen or scale back functionality or fidelity. That just makes no sense, and in any case they've stated clearly and many times they are not. And even given us a preview of all the core sim improvements coming at last year's FS Expo, which hopefully they'll do more of very soon, starting with FS Expo'24 in a couple of weeks.

 

Quote

Improved aerodynamics and physics simulation 

There has to be real value to the flight simulator in this area but I suggest it is as a byproduct of the need to create this primarily for the most 'realistic' Career mode. 

Improved aircraft systems including electrical, pneumatic, fuel, and hydraulics 

Can someone tell me what this actually means? Fenix, PMDG, Leonardo and a number of other developers seem to have delivered very good renditions of these systems in 2020? What is there to improve? I suspect it is responding to developers requirements in the SDK rather than Asobo default aircraft coming with more complex systems which would seem counter intuitive with the audience MS is marketing to.  Put more simply, is this improvement directed at developers of study level aircraft, to make them even more complex? 

New failure and wear & tear system 

Again, I suspect this is a by-product of the Career mode rather than area of improvement in flight simulation, although some use can no  doubt be made of it.   

Deeper and wider avionics systems

Now we are talking real aeroplane stuff, but what does this mean? How much wider or deeper can we go? Career mode again?  That FLIR, that tac rail, that specialist piece of electronic equipment required for some mission?  Not bad if it is since this by-product can then be developed into payware offerings.

Why would these need to be improved *only* to support career mode? It's pretty clear these are what they consider improvements to the *core* sim, and increase the fidelity of default aircraft, and also to facilitate aircraft developers (especially things like being able to use a base aircraft geometry that's more flexible with more surfaces, wing types, etc all which of makes it easier for aircraft devs to flesh out their FMs)
 

Edited June 11, 20241 yr by lwt1971