7 minutes ago, Ident said:

ATC in flight simming seems to be one of the last areas to really nail down and get right. Curious about your use of ATC and what you are looking to get out of it. Not to recommend anything just better understand your point of view and expectations.

I'm not convinced the technology necessary is there yet. You can train the LLM all you want, it needs to be doing pretty much constant ML and decisionmaking which would require a ton of compute power, if it's even technically feasible. 

With regard to actually enjoying it - yes, if I were trying to do anything more than evaluate it between two busy, complex airports, I would've definitely turned it off! Needs more cooking (a lot more).

15 minutes ago, UAL4life said:

Completely agree on all the points made, especially the misplaced focus on LLM.... The pushbacks being too fast with no time to engine start or test control surfaces and just immediately taxi within 30 seconds of initial push is one that irks me >> tho they still have THE BEST voices available ...

I agree - the premium voices are excellent, and if one does decide to purchase the software - the premium voices are a must.
Personally, I use BATC because:
1)Although poorly implemented (IMHO), it's the only semi-satisfactory software that integrates both ATC instructions and AI management.
2) It's the cheaper ATC solution.

Hopefully, this will change in the future, though I doubt that.

Edited March 22, 20251 yr by ypaul123

36 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

This is my thought also.  The only realistic ATC program I have ever used is SayIntentions.

SI.ai is pretty rough too, though. I do appreciate how quickly they’re able to fix things, but my goodness, sometimes SA.ai can make me clench my body in frustration. That said I still have an annual subscription. Their team is full of wonderful folks that really enjoy flight simulation.
 

I agree with what the OP said about BATC’s support. The program itself does give a great illusion of there being a living world. But good lord man, “request taxi to the active” is still a thing, TCAS RA’s, etc….Remember, the whole purpose of ATC is to provide traffic separation. If it can’t do that, then what’s it doing? 
 

I’m excited for SA.ai traffic, but have my concerns. Despite their bugs, I still prefer either of those over vatsim, now. 

38 minutes ago, ypaul123 said:

I believe I was told on their discord that their ATC doesn't even monitor you while you taxi - that's a true strive for realism right there - you can basically do whatever you want and use whatever taxiway you feel like using.

90% of the time now I stick w/ FSLTL's injection and management, and use only BATC's ATC.  This cuts performance demand w/ equivalent plane density by about 40% over BATC's traffic injection.  Plus, and it's not just me, AI plane animation is frequently herky jerky to some extent whereas w/ FSLTL it's always totally smooth.  It helps to have sim and BATC locked at 60FPS but it still occurs, the jerky traffic that you can ignore if you just don't look unless the plane is moving on the ground close to you.  And FSLTL seems to have awareness of my proximity because it will stop moving when I'm approaching its path.  

Just came into Cuzco, Peru and it was giving me 'vectors for an R-NAV approach into RWy28'.  It's calling the altitude steps on down and TRYING to match the RNAV route but is a day late and many degrees short.  Had this been low viz weather might not have missed these with this type of vectoring as were way too close a couple of times.  Even default ATC doesn't do that!

And as you can see were way wide left by the time we got to the runway.  It certainly tries to give useful vectoring but fails too often. In fact I did this in 2020 years ago using default ATC and it handled it absolutely perfectly!

It just matched what was in the OFP/avionics but it did it perfectly, every step, everything:

It's clear to me I don't have RW ATC experience and probably don't quite understand what their complete role is and so may have unrealistic expectations. 

 

Edited March 22, 20251 yr by Noel

1 hour ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

This is my thought also.  The only realistic ATC program I have ever used is SayIntentions.

Well that’s by far exaggerated. I use both applications and both have their highs and lows. Right now at least on my end I run into more issues with SI than with BATC. But both applications are constantly improved so let’s see how they’re shaped in a year.

I will keep using both as I enjoy both for their highs and I’m looking forward when in April traffic injection will hit SI universe.

  

18 minutes ago, AGuther said:

Well that’s by far exaggerated. I use both applications and both have their highs and lows. Right now at least on my end I run into more issues with SI than with BATC. But both applications are constantly improved so let’s see how they’re shaped in a year.

I will keep using both as I enjoy both for their highs and I’m looking forward when in April traffic injection will hit SI universe.

I hope SI will be better.

I like Brian, I think he's a good guy and believe that he has spent a lot of time (and money) for the flight simulation community (SI Sponsoring FSWeekend comes to mind). For what it's worth, he's earned my trust by providing me with excellent and respectful tech support, even when the issue had nothing to do with SI, while I had an active SI premium subscription and was on SI's discord server(I used it in X-Plane).

Edited March 22, 20251 yr by ypaul123

1 hour ago, ypaul123 said:

We both know BeyondATC has been in development for YEARS

It was released last year, wasnt it?

As early access.

Made me think you mix up things with FSHud which is indeed several years on the market now. Is it better?

Can't agree on bad customer Support. Also in opposite to FSHud in earlier times. (but FSHud developer learned sth meanwhile regarding how to treat customers)

 

So, for sure, batc is far from perfect. Especially the last EX versions are a step back, and they explained why.

But give them also some time. Or do we have better options?

40 minutes ago, Noel said:

90% of the time now I stick w/ FSLTL's injection and management, and use only BATC's ATC.  This cuts performance demand w/ equivalent plane density by about 40% over BATC's traffic injection.  Plus, and it's not just me, AI plane animation is frequently herky jerky to some extent whereas w/ FSLTL it's always totally smooth.  It helps to have sim and BATC locked at 60FPS but it still occurs, the jerky traffic that you can ignore if you just don't look unless the plane is moving on the ground close to you.  And FSLTL seems to have awareness of my proximity because it will stop moving when I'm approaching its path.  

Just came into Cuzco, Peru and it was giving me 'vectors for an R-NAV approach into RWy28'.  It's calling the altitude steps on down and TRYING to match the RNAV route but is a day late and many degrees short.  Had this been low viz weather might not have missed these with this type of vectoring as were way too close a couple of times.  Even default ATC doesn't do that!

And as you can see were way wide left by the time we got to the runway.  It certainly tries to give useful vectoring but fails too often. In fact I did this in 2020 years ago using default ATC and it handled it absolutely perfectly!

It just matched what was in the OFP/avionics but it did it perfectly, every step, everything:

It's clear to me I don't have RW ATC experience and probably don't quite understand what their complete role is and so may have unrealistic expectations. 

 

As I already stated, I fly usually 2-3 flights a day. I have never seen AI traffic be jerky or stutter with BATC. 

6 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

As I already stated, I fly usually 2-3 flights a day. I have never seen AI traffic be jerky or stutter with BATC. 

In major airports using 5-6 AI density scalar? doubtful.

1 hour ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

This is my thought also.  The only realistic ATC program I have ever used is SayIntentions.

What I saw from SayIntentions couldn't hold a candle to BATC.

3 minutes ago, ypaul123 said:

In major airports using 5-6 AI density scalar? doubtful.

Have to agree with bob here, they’ve been pretty smooth as well. The more annoying issue is faulty BGLs messing up taxi routes.

16 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

As I already stated, I fly usually 2-3 flights a day. I have never seen AI traffic be jerky or stutter with BATC. 

Same here.

2 hours ago, ypaul123 said:

A complete waste of money

My thoughts exactly. After a week using it, I honestly don't understand the praise it gets...

SI is way better for me, but there price model is just too much

21 minutes ago, guenseli said:

So, for sure, batc is far from perfect. Especially the last EX versions are a step back, and they explained why.

 

they sure didn't explain it to me or other people who are not using\have access to their discord server...

Edited March 22, 20251 yr by ypaul123

2 minutes ago, ypaul123 said:

they didn't explain it to me...

Was explained in their initial and subsequent videos on introducing the LLM.

 To me there was fairly good reasoning.