This thread has jumped the shark.

1 hour ago, XMAN said:

nobody flys anymore

it's a sad sad situation. but true due to cost of fuel and airplanes. fuel price now 3 x higher than when I started. airplane $$ x 2 since when I purchased it.

Edited January 25Jan 25 by turbomax

16 hours ago, whamil77 said:

I could live with that if we could get into them and fix them like we could in P3D.  But everything is locked down for whatever reason and we can't.  We're stuck with whatever horrendous flying qualities and bad systems came with the software and most of these if not all will become expensive hangar queens because they bear no resemblance to an actual airplane with an airworthiness certificate.

I'm a little confused here, P3D aircraft were comprised mostly of compiled dlls. You can't edit those, nor can you decompile them cause they're obfuscated (which developer would open let you tinker in their work like that). In which case you couldn't modify the systems of aircraft unless they were data driven, but even so that represents a small minority of the systems themselves. So I'm going to assume you're just referring to the flight model? This could be edited depending on if the plane used an externalised flight model or not.

Now unto MSFS, I'm not sure if your experience is with marketplace products but just to notify that all marketplace products are heavily encrypted. If you want to purchase an aircraft from a developer that isn't as encrypted, then buy from their actual stores, for example Blacksquare sells its products on JustFlight. From there you can modify the flight_model if you see fit but much like P3D you still can't go around editing systems etc etc because their JS and WASM guages.

To put a long story short, I'm really unsure what it is you're hoping to "fix" in the aircraft that you could've done in P3D.

16 hours ago, whamil77 said:

There is no .air file. 

You're right, there isn't. It's now replaced with the Flight_model.cfg you can read more about it here. 

 

16 hours ago, whamil77 said:

MSFS is a child's toy to be played on XBox by kids that should be doing their homework.  It is an intro to pretty graphics and has nothing to do with flying actual airplanes.  It does not cater to us.  I suppose we're not enough of the market share. 

I'm personally not in a position to argue with on your conclusion though based on your post I don't think it would make much of a difference. I wholly agree that MSFS has a woeful amount of problems, but based on the anecdotals of various RW pilots from varying aviation careers that when paired with an aircraft that is loved (JustFlight, Fenix, Blackbird etc etc) it does a pretty good job at recreating the enjoyment of flight.

This is plane and simple trolling.  Why ever?  I have no idea but what a wack job overview of flight dynamics and planes in MSFS and the other 'comic book' sim. 

Alright, maybe trolling is the wrong term even though he entered this forum which is mostly comprised of people with ample sim and many with RW experience with this bizarre overview.  Perhaps he's just down and it's difficult to see reality with a cup that is not very full.  Good luck OP.

Edited January 25Jan 25 by Noel

"The airplanes fly like (enter bad word here)"

This part is true, but you won't find many people to agree with you because so few understand. i.e. I can count on one hand the number of developers that know how to implement an accurate flight model. In X-Plane however, a 6 year old boy can follow the tutorial and get an accurate flight model out of it.

If flight dynamics is what you're after, you picked the wrong sim. But P3D is in an even worse place; it's not even possible to configure an aircraft with accurate flight dynamics in that sim. The only way is to use an external flight model.

Edited January 25Jan 25 by Ikaro

25 minutes ago, Noel said:

This is plane and simple trolling…. Alright, maybe trolling is the wrong term

It’s definitely not trolling. It’s the honest assessment by another user. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Some people are jumping on him because his opinion differs to theirs

This has been an ongoing issue in the five and a half years since MSFS was released.

He’s no kid.

7 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It’s definitely not trolling. It’s the honest assessment by another user. Everyone is entitled to their opinion

Yep, you too are entitled to your opinion on what motivated the OP to come up that, IMO, twisted/tainted overview. 

12 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It’s definitely not trolling. It’s the honest assessment by another user. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Some people are jumping on him because his opinion differs to theirs

This has been an ongoing issue in the five and a half years since MSFS was released.

He’s no kid.

I'm a long standing member here.  This needs to be said.  Ray, you're one of the mods who has held a bias against MSFS (2020 and 24) for quite some time.  I really wish we had some mods who are in support of 2020/2024.

FS9, FSX, P3D is still available to use!  No one is forcing you to use MSFS!

Same with the OP!  Go ahead and use P3D!

22 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It’s definitely not trolling.

When I read the first post, I thought "don't feed the trolls" and decided to stay out of the thread. I guess we can also have different opinions on what constitutes trolling and what not. 

I am sure the OP is right but since i have never flown a plane in real life…ignorance is bliss?

17 minutes ago, ryanbatc said:

I'm a long standing member here.  This needs to be said.  Ray, you're one of the mods who has held a bias against MSFS (2020 and 24) for quite some time. 

Would you care to prove that bias? Yes, I don’t own it because I fly Boeing aircraft and Concorde and see no great advantage over P3D when everything pertaining to my type of flying plus my hardware is taken into account.

I’m perfectly happy with the sim of my choice.

I’m surprised with your attitude Ryan. I always thought you as one of the more levelheaded members here.

25 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It’s definitely not trolling. 

It kind of is though, when one says an A2A plane flies like "you know what" (his words) and equates that to MSFS flight model in general.  In fact (and correct me if I'm wrong), A2A's flight models are EXTERNAL, and anyone who flies these airplanes in any sim knows that.  Therefore, he's either grossly misinformed (at least as to A2A) or is trolling.  How could a person equate A2A's external flight model to ANY sim's flight model?   That makes no sense, because the sim isn't controlling the airplane!    I too am surprised to hear that this is a seasoned individual/flight sim person.  I mean the OP no ill will -- but my point about the flight modelling vis a vis A2A...I think it's very valid, and eats at the credibility of the rest of it. 

1 hour ago, Noel said:

MSFS and the other 'comic book' sim. 

🤣

29 minutes ago, Noel said:

Yep, you too are entitled to your opinion on what motivated the OP to come up that, IMO, twisted/tainted overview. 

You changed your mind whilst writing your earlier post. You seem unsure so it’s always best to avoid posting until you’re certain one way or another.

Many things can be true at the same time. Do i respect the OP’s opinion and believe it is valid? Yes. Do i think it was trolling? No. Could others completely see it as trolling? Yes. Has Ray been a fair mod? Yes. Can others feel differently? Yes. 

Everything is subjective. The OP has an opinion and lots of experience to back it up. I personally enjoy MSFS 2020 and now 2024. I guess i am lucky not to have those issues he mentioned bothering me. But if things can get better, I hope Asobo opens up the files enough to do it. We should all hope for that. 

What we should not be doing is criticizing anyone for their opinions. Debate the points. Calling someone a troll does not absolve you of debating the points.