Bob Church

Hi Jeff, Sorry I didn't see this earlier. You can always reach me at: bob (at) stickworks (dot) com The Hangar is offline while it's being updated so that's about the only way right now. I'll send this to the addy you posted, too. - Bob

Hi onebob, If you go to Win7/64 (Vista64 and I'm guessing Win8/64 are the same), FS will let you access calibration from within the sim. If you calibrate it there, you're just running the standard Windows calibration and the Control Manager won't work correctly. It's feeding data into DirectX below the point where Windows applies it's calibration, so the output ends up doubly-calibrated. So long as the controllers aren't calibrated in Windows, then only the Control Manager calibration has any effect and things work again. Clearing the Windows data isn't too hard. The quickest way is probably with the Logitech WingmanTeam "ClrCalib.exe" utility, it's available for free at: http://www.wingmanteam.com All the controllers are cleared at once, so you need to unplug all of them, clear the data, and then use Windows to calibrate the non-CH devices, but wait until the CM is installed and calibrate the CH stuff from there. Don't calibrate anything that the Control Manager is handling in Windows, the CM won't work properly if Windows calibration is in the way.

Hi Shaun, Registered FSUIPC will do it. Drop by my site (URL in the sig), find the "Downloads" page, and look for a file called CMNote02.zip. It has a PDF file in it that talks about how to set it up, should be some help. Hope the helps! Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks.com http://www.stickworks.com

Hi Jim, >> No, I didn't have CM installed so I installed it and checked the raw data as you suggested. The fluctuating controls shown by the numbers are the rudder, left throttle, left mixture, ailerons, and elevators. All are fluctuating by 1. (89-90, 252-253 ,253-254, & 114-115. So you think this is ok? << Yup, that's fine. Which axis was the 89-90 on? The CH stuff generates raw values of 0..255. If it centers, the value will usually be about half that, ideally 128 but it's doesn't need to be exact. Calibration will sort it out unless it's a long way off. It could be just a throttle axis that's not set at max or min, I'm just curious as to whether we should look at why it's there. If it is a centering axis, (X, Y, etc.) then the trim wheel probably needs to be centered, there's a weak detent at center that's usually close enough, if it gets a long way off, it can create problems. >> As I stated, it doesn't really cause me any problems - just doesn't look normal. I can live with it though. I just wanted a fix if there was one. << It's just not really much force. One count is about 0.4% of full scale and it only stays in effect for one frame, you get a chance to correct it each frame by moving the stick. You don't notice that, but when you're flying that's what happens, so you end up adjusting it so often that it's not a problem unless the frame rate drops to a low value. I used to get mail from people all the time - "My joystick works great except when I'm at low altitude. What's wrong with it?". Well, there's no way the joystick knows the altitude or cares. What had happened was the aircraft had gotten down into the ground clutter, usually at landing time, the frame rate had dropped way down, and things would get difficult to control with a strong tendency to overshoot because of the low frame rate. Anyway, "1" is as good as it gets, after calibration you might see "2" at certain positions, but there's not much you can do about it, and it usually doesn't really bother anything anyway. Hope this helps! Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com

Hi Jim, Well, they all "twitch" a little. It's how much they twitch by that matters. I'm assuming you don't have the Control Manager installed. "Installed" is all that matters, whether you're using a map or not doesn't really make any difference. What you need to check is the "Raw Value". Start into the normal Windows calibration. You don't really want to calibrate, at least not for this, but if you start into the calibration routine, early on there'll be a checkbox to "Show Raw Data" or something like that. Check that and it will show you the numbers coming up the wires from the controllers themselves. Digital systems can't do better than a one-count bobble. They don't do fractions, so if it's at a point where it should be 127.5 for example, it will show you 127...128...127..128.., etc. It averages out but it twitches when it does. With calibration you'll sometimes see a couple of counts because of the way the calibration works. How much "bobble" are you seeing? It helps to know that, it narrows down the list of possible problem. If you do have the CM installed drop to the desktop, run the CM GUI, open the calibration screen, and watch the "Raw Data" display. Same thing. Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com

Hi Andy, I would guess the only place MS searches on the 'net is Windows Update. The driver collectors probably check the manufacturers site too. If the manufacturer didn't pay MS to sign the driver, self-signed it instead probably, then MS could say "No" where the driver collector might say "Yes". Check the manufacturers site yourself. They should have the latest version, and if it doesn't come from there, where did it come from? If the manufacturer doesn't have it and Windows Update didn't send it to you, where did it come from? You might also check that you haven't "hidden" the driver from Windows Update, maybe sometime before you got the hardware. I don't know whether that would affect the search or not, but it can't hurt to take a look. Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com

Hi maf, That very slow response after it's been sitting for awhile is most often cause by the pot connections. CH uses a push-on connector and they get dirty or oxidize and it causes the A/D converters to not track at their normal speed. Usually just working the yoke in, out, left, and right for a minute or so will cause the connections to move a little an make good contact again, but if not then about the only thing you can do is open the thing up, move the push-on around a little to break the oxide layer, and then maybe take some pliers and squeeze the push-ons so they're tight again. Soldering the things is the best, really if you have the skills, but be very careful not to use very much heat or solder. Too much heat causes the pot terminals to expand and loosen the rivets, they the pot goes intermittent. I've fixed that with a center punch in the past. Put the point into the center of the rivet and tap it a little to expand it and tighten it up again. One note. If the yoke is still in warranty, opening it will void whatever time is left, the only way around it is to send it back to CH and having them repair it for you. Try just working the axes a bit first, that will usually clear the problem it it has set for too long. Opening the thing isn't any fun anyway. Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com

Hi, FWIW, Google throws a "Reported Attack Site" message on the link in the message above. Downloading malicious software behind your back, things like that. You might want to avoid it. Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com

Hi caffeinegum, WRT the signup, there's not much you can. Sometimes they only block free providers like GMail et al, but I had a look and I can't even find a "Join" button. I'd take the software they're offering you (I think that last line is a link) and try it. Set a manual System Restore point first. If anything goes wrong, uninstall it and then go back to the manual restore point. As far as what you'd lose, probably the ability to send characters with the buttons and axes. I guress there's a bit more to it, but those would be the main things. If you can live without them, and you really can with FS and the like, then you could try just not using it. FS has lots of programming functions built-in, FSX has 1140 button/axis commands I think. You'd need to pick up FSUIPC (or learn to edit XML files) to get to them all, FS only shows about 450 of them, but other than that you wouldn't really miss much. A lot of other sims don't have that much capability though. As far as the revision number goes, I wouldn't worry about it. You had to specify the stick model and OS at download, it may be that they just didn't update it for all the models, unsupported functions and things like that can create problems for updates. I'd think the site would have the latest verions on it. Good luck! Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com

Hi caffeinegum, I don't really know the answers, but did you join the Saitek Forum or just go there and look at what's visible. Until you join, you only get to see about 1/10th of what's available (announcements and common fixes as I recall). Once you sign up, you get access to several more forums and a lot more information. Chances are you can find the information on the driver in there somewhere. Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com

Hi Anthony, Center sticks are difficult to get set up. I usually deal with combat simulator people that use sticks almost exclusively and the better way is generally a side-stick configuration. If you've got a chair with arms on it, try to work out a bracket or shelf at the front of the arm so that when your arm is lying on the arm of the chair, your hand falls naturally onto the stick handle without having to bend your arm or your wrist. Usually putting them on the desk is a tiresome configuration anyway, it's too high and you end up with your arm having to go up at an angle from your elbow and your wrist bending to grab the stick. It's uncomfortable and tiring. Usually they set them just ahead of the arm of the chair and dropped a bit below it so that in straight and level flight your arm rests on the arm of the chair and your wrist doesn't have to bend. Something similar on the left can be used for a separate throttle if you get one of those at some point. You end up with better control, your arm and wrist don't tire so quickly, and if the stick has hat switches and buttons on it they're much easier to reach with the stick in that position. When your arm is coming upward and your wrist has to bend to grab it, the POV hat and the whatever else is up at the top of the stick can be very difficult to operate, especially if you have smaller hands. You might browse look around some of the combat sim forums at the pictures of the cockpits those guys build, mostly all they use are joysticks, and see if you can get some ideas there. Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com

Hi Turner, You're also not looking for a potentiometer, really. They can be made to spin continuously. They used to go out sometimes to at least 10 turns, I don't know where they are today, but what you need is an encoder, technically a "quadrature encoder". They put out a pair of pulses that overlap by half their width. As you spin it one way, side A will go high, then side B will go high, then side A will go low then side B will go low. That keeps repeating as long as you spin it in the direction. If you spin it the other way, side B will go high before side A goes high and low before side A goes low. You can tell the direction by whether A goes high before B or B goes high before A. Where you might find one, maybe someone else knows a source. Industrial electronics places sold them, but they were pretty expensive. OTOH, mice do the same thing, so they cheaper ones are probably available. You should check with Leo Bodnar and see if his board will decode the A and B signals. I think I read somewhere that it would, I think FSUIPC will decode them too. Anyway, search "encoders" you can probably find something that will work for you. Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com

Hi Ben, Just as a point of interest, neither the HE nor the Pot have anything to do with the ultimate resolution. That's determined solely by the resolution of the A/D converter that digitizes the value, the resolution of either of the sensor types is "infinite" for all intents and purposes. Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com

Hi ianzee, >> It had recently developed a tendency to swing to the right when in flight. So I re-calibrated it through FSX - (big mistake!) << Exactly so. FS9 and FSX running under 64-bit Vista or Win7 let you calibrate from within FS. That sends you through the standard Windows calibration which makes registry entries that prevent the Control Manager drivers (map or no map) from operating correctly. You have to calibrate it only from the Control Manager GUI, never from Windows. You need to clear the Windows calibration data. There are a couple of ways to do it. Probably the quickest is to go back into FS and start calibrating the CH Device(s) again. Early on in the process, you'll be given the option to "Clear the Calibration Data" or something like that. Do that, then don't finish the calibration. Exit as gracefully as possible, close FS, and calibrate with the CM again. The other, slightly more drastic, action is to drop by the Logitech WingmanTeam site: http://www.wingmanteam.com Look for a free utility on the first page called "ClrCalib.exe". Download that, unplug all your controllers (note which ports they're plugged into), and run it. It wipes the data for every controller on the machine. Plug things back into the ports they were in before you started, then restart Windows. You'll need to recalibrate everything again. For the CH stuff, use the Control Manager GUI calibration. If you've got non-CH gear on the machine too, just calibrate in FS or using the Control Panel. That should fix things up. Do make sure that any trim wheels on the CH gear are centered before you calibrate (on the yoke, it's only the one on the main housing to the left of where the yoke shaft comes out of the case, not the ones on the Eclipse hub if you've got one of those). After that, don't use the trim wheel again, it just screws up the calibration. If you need to trim, use the button trim or analog trim that FS itself supplies. Give that a try, see if it doesn't sort things out for you. Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com

Hi rbc70,It's probably picking up the default settings for that ZRotation axis will spin it around, but it could be any of the controllers really.Go through the FS Controls Assignments dialog and check the Slew assignments for all the controllers, make sure it's only where you want it to be.Best regards,- BobThe StickWorkshttp://www.stickworks.com

hi rvc70,If you're not using the Control Manager (with or without a map), then it should be the two paddles either side of the yoke hub. They were meant to be used for Rudder, but it's just an axis and can be assigned to any of the FS centering axis functions.If you are using the Control Manager (again, mapped or not), then they show up as the "R" axis, but the CM uses X, Y, Z, R, U, V. FS used "R" too back before they started using the XML files rather than the CFG files.Best regards,- BobThe StickWorkshttp://www.stickworks.com

Hi LMaire,You might want to check the users manual for the motherboard. I was just looking at a review at one of the sites that claimed the ASUS Maximus 4, at least the version they were testting, did have a lot of USB3.0 ports it's true, but there were also supposedly 9 USB 2.0/1.1 ports, one on the back used for something called "ROG", and then 8 more internally on the motherboard. I got the impression it was 4 of those 10-pin connectors with one of the corner pins blocked. You need to get those slot cover things with the USB plugs on them and plug them into those, you get two ports from each. Amazon has them for a few dollars.If not and you've got a free PCI slot, Amazon also sells a bunch of PCI->USB cards that handle USB 1.1 and 2.0, usually 4 or 5 ports. I use an IOGear card myself, but Amazon has some for as little as $5 it seems, and you can always plug external hubs into those if you should need more. It's really pretty rare for a motherboard to come with no 2.0/1.1 ports, a lot of the 1.1 and 2.0 devices seem to have problems with 3.0.Best regards,- BobThe StickWorkshttp://www.stickworks.com

Hi fsnl,There's nothing you can do about it. The standard pots normally rotate 270 or 300 degrees, that's not what you've got, but the prrinciple is the same. The yoke may rotate 180 degrees, but it's apparently only active over 100 to 120 degrees in your case. Once you run out of that active area, there's no change in resistance and so no reaction in the sim. If the yoke only rotated 100 degrees or so it would be active over full rotation, but if the physical rotation is greater than the electrical rotation, once your out of the active zone nothing is going to happen. You just end up with those large endzones. It makes it cheaper to manufacture since they don't have to get the pot rotation precisely aligned with the physical rotation.Anyway, calibration, FSUIPC, whatever, won't fix it. The only thing that could be done would be to put stops at 1he end of whatever rotation you've got so it didn't run off the end of the active region or get a pot with a wider active region that would cover physical rotation, but the pots are usually made with a special silk screen and unless you want to pay the setup and buy a couple of thousand of the things, most of the pot manufacturers won't even talk to you.Not much help, but maybe less hair-pulling...Best regards,- BobThe StickWorkshttp://www.stickworks.com

Hi,WRT to the lubricant, CH doesn't recommend any. Eventually they all seem to soften the plastic. On the up side, the Eclipse uses different materials for the shaft and shaft bushings and the "sticktion" at center elevator is essentialy gone without lubrication. With the hat on the left now, one-handed operation isn't usually any problem.Best regards,- BobThe StickWorkshttp://www.stickworks.com

Hi bic,What pmanhart says is correct, but I'd add a few things......After you plug things back in and Windows loads it's drivers, check in the Devices and Printers and make sure they seem to be working, that the axes move and the buttons flash. Don't calibrate, though. Also the 64-bit versions of Vista and Win7 will open the standard Windows calibration applet if you calibrate from within FS. You can hit the Windows applet if you like, but outside of FS it will just pop up a message that you have to calibrate from within the CM. Never calibrate in the standard Windows applet. You can exit to the desktop, open the GUI, and calibrate them there. If they get calibrated using Windows. some registry data is written that interferes with the CM and it won't run correctly, and the calibration from within FS is just a call to the Control Panel.Once things look like they're working, restart Windows before you run the actual installer. That lets Windows detect them in normal boot order. When you plug them in, they're detected in the order you used to plug them into the ports. When you restart the first time, they'll come back in Windows boot order and that will usually cause Windows to take them back to the "bum drivers". That causes a "Reset Defaults" on the controllers and they'll need to be rescanned. There's a button on the first dialog that shows up when you go to the Test/Calibrate screen in the CM GUI, but if you do the restart after plug-in but before running the installer, it generally doesn't happen.Couple of other tips. Don't change ports if you can arrange it. I use one of those USB->PCI cards and leave them dedicated to the to the CH stuff so I don't need to rescan things. Changing the port will give the controllers back to Windows.The trimwheel should show 128 for a Raw Value in the CM test screen (or the Windows screen if you check "show raw data") with the elevators centered. Hard to hit exactly, but if it's too far off there a sensitivity change when you pass through center elevator that makes it difficult to control sometimes, especially when your down in the ground clutter at landing and the framerate is down. It doesn't have to be exact, you probably won't but as long as it's around 128 calibration will sort things out. After that, leave the trimwheel alone and use button trim or assign an analog trim axis. I usually use the throttle wheel on the FighterStick, having the ProThrottle makes it unnecessary, but any axis will do.Finally, the CM doesn't get along with USB 3.0 ports, so be sure and use USB 1.x or USB 2.x.Best regards,- BobThe StickWorkshttp://www.stickworks.com

Hi Rn>> I would like to "neaten up" my system.Is it OK to run my controllers thru a couple of 4 port usb hubs? I think running HD's thru them slows performance but what about controllers? I have yoke,mouse,keyboard,pedals,trackIr,2 Saitek throttle quadrants. <<]You can, but a much better option IMHO is to pick up one of those USB-PCI cards. USB 1.x or 2.x, there are problems with a lot of controllers and USB 3.0. It ties you to the motherboard power that way, it's a lot less likely to jitter, and you get better response since it effectively puts new hubs on the motherboard where the external hubs divide up the bandwidth of one of the actual motherboard hubs, you get more bandwidth rather than just putting more load on the existing motherboard ports. Some of them have a 5th port on the card that can be used with a thumbdrive for ReadyBoost or to tie to a front panel port (Amazon has the cables, "Cables to Go" I think) for a couple of bucks.Tidier, too. No hub, no transformer, fewer wires.Anyway, FWIW.Best regards,- BobThe StickWorkshttp://www.stickworks.com

Hi Michael,I wrote an article about setting it up with the Control Manager and with FSUIPC. Go to my site and pick the "File Downloads" button, then look on the Download page for CMNote02.zip which has the article in it in PDF format. It was written a few years back but the information should still be good. There is also some info over on Pete Dowson's forum on simFlight.com I think. You need FSUIPC for analog reverse thrust, the CM can only run the buttons and do it that way. You can use FSUIPC with or without the Control Manager.Hope this helps!Best regards,- BobThe StickWorkshttp://www.stickworks.com

Hi Greg,I'm not sure what you mean by "self-accelerating", but if you mean that slow, consistent drift when the pedals aren't moving, it's usually caused by a loose pot connection. A lot of the time they used push on terminals to make the connection and they had a tendency to oxidize over time and that can cause it. Removing and reconnecting the pushon a few times usually will clean it up.Best regards,- BobThe StickWorkshttp://www.stickworks.com

Hi Scott,In XP, I think if you click the "Advanced" tab on the game controllers applet, it will take you to a dialog that lets you select the "Controller to use for Older Games" or something like that. Essentially it just forces which stick will be seen as Joystick 1. You might give that a try.Best regards,- BobThe StickWorkshttp://www.stickworks.com

Hi Doug,They won't conflict. Install the CM but just leave it in Direct Mode, don't download a map. Only calibrate in the CM GUI. Win7/64 will let you calibrate from within the sim, but it uses Windows calibration and the interferes with the CM operation. The controllers will show up under their own names and work just like they always do, and you can make the assignments in FSUIPC or FS just as you normally would. Just don't ever let it run the Windows calibration routine. That sets registry data the stops the CM from being able to work properly, but so long as you calibrate using the CM GUI there's no problem and no conflict.One other note. The CM doesn't work yet with USB 3.0 ports. You said it works so your apparently not using them anyway, but if you have them on the machine or on some later machine, don't used them. Stick with USB 2.0 ports or USB 1.x ports. USB 3.0 doesn't really help at all with controllers anyway.Hope this helps!Best regards,- BobThe StickWorkshttp://www.stickworks.com