That was clearly a joke. Really, did that have to be pointed out?But, just to be completely bipartisan here, I do have three Ariane 737 NGs (two for FSX, one for FS9), these in addition to the the Wilco PIC Classic, the PMDG FS9 NG, the iFly FS9 NG, and the Aerosim 200 series as well, so quite a few FS 737s on my HD, and the Ariane ones are decent enough, with a lot of innovative features that neither the PMDG one or the iFly one will have if the known forthcoming features list is anything to go by. It's not all roses though, there are some bad points (mainly the limited FMC database), but nothing too disastrous, and it does run at a high frame rate.Unfortunately, the activation system Ariane use (emailing a response code) is not the best in my opinion (and many other opinions too), although in fairness I've never been unable to get stuff activated, even if it has on occasion taken some days. Claims that Ariane product support is bad are unfair though, the support is actually pretty good on their forums in my experience, but being a forum that you can't get on unless you have purchased a product, most people would not know that unless they'd bought something from them. All this means the only really genuine gripe I think there is with Ariane - and sadly it isn't a minor one - is that their FSX stuff is a bit steep price-wise when you consider that you only get one variant for your money. It's that which would make it hard for me to recommend Ariane's offerings when the iFly one at least seems mere days away and the PMDG one is on finals in its wake, and not because Ariane are the sons of Satan, as some people would have you believe.Al

...and MilViz in the C310R, and a handful of others as well. :(

What "others" would these be Bill?Thanks!

Sibwings bird dog, vrs superbug... I'm sure there are others.

Sibwings bird dog, vrs superbug... I'm sure there are others.

Lotus L-39 and I heard the IRIS A-10 does as well. I own the A-10 but never installed it so I cant verify, but am pretty sure it does.I think some Airbus also, maybe by Aerosoft?

No, my worst fears have come true.PMDG have released videos. Meaning they want to appease us for another couple of months. This thing won't be ready before end July, I guarantee you.By that time, I will (hopefully) be flying my iFly 737 from the Boeing field for testing. I have no interest in a company that plays such games with us (Stays quiet for a few months, says they are almost finished, stays even MORE quiet for a few months, releases something to keep us interested, stays quiet, builds even more hype etc etc)PMDG, you need to get off your high horse.

They made it sound as if it was about to be released when they put the manuals out for sale

Its a good question, they stated early in the development process that the performance was better than their recent products, then as more features got implemented they said that performance was on par with their latest releases. How the performance is today when all the features have been implemented is anyones guess (unless you have access to the beta of course). Personally I think that PMDG planes perform pretty good compared to other companies in the same marked, for example Captain Sim. I dont own any Ariane products, but from what Ive been hearing about Ariane is that their customer service is the worst in the business and that their products are very pricey. Are you saying that these common conceptions about Ariane are untrue?

Noo Noo I was very sarcastic :( My comment is to take with a pinch of salt

Sweet job pmdg I'm sure this one will be awesome!

They are hidden away under maintenance functions in the FMC.. it's practical and convenient to not have to use the FSX menu to change options. Especially when opening/closing doors. It's the way it should be done and the way PMDG has been doing it for a while..

I agree, even with PMDG's attention to ultimate realism (i.e., not simulating weather radar because the FSX weather engine does not simulate precipitation), concessions must be made because we are operating in a fixed base, 2d environment. Using a menu is distracting and spoils the flow, so while I understand having a menu for options set up only once before flights, PMDG offers plenty of tasks that are part of the flying workflow (such as setting chocks, opening doors, connecting Ground Air/Power lines, loading fuel....the list goes on!) Seriously, would you rather go to the menu to access those tasks? I try to avoid accessing the menu as much as possible for the simple fact that my AI program (Ultimate Traffic 2) will reset traffic anytime the menu's are accessed, which spoils the immersion factor big time! I am so grateful that PMDG will move all the options settings for the NGX from the menu to the FMC, just for this reason alone. And as mentioned above, those options settings are not grouped in the main FMC submenu, but are in a separate "simulation" menu in the FMC.I'm sure everyone with Ultimate Traffic 2 is rejoicing over the news of the FMC menu options!

Pretty sure the FMC options were also in the MD-11

In short, if you're allowed to watch the pdf, you're allowed to watch the data you've paid for, regardless of the medium you use to display it. Blocking the print option therefore isn't a copyright based thing but a company policy based one.

I think your confusing ownership of a product vs. licensing of a product. I believe these books are licensed from Boeing and Boeing will dictate the terms that are appropriate for the licensee (PMDG) and sub-licensor (those who buy the product). Having said that, you are correct in that we have not had a response to that question - maybe they are still negotiating the terms of the license.You actually aren't paying for the data - you're paying for a license to USE the data.Book publishing and copyright laws are a strange bunch. Just because you can have your cake does not mean you can eat it too.

I truly hope PMDG releases the SDK, would be nice if before launch, so hardware/software makers would have a head-start.

Time to put the manuals stuff to bed - consider this the official facts/confirmation:1. Both FCOMs, the FTCM and the QRH are included as PDFs. These are the real life Boeing manuals, just like the ones we're selling.2. The manuals are printable.3. There will be a separate PMDG-written portion of the manual set that will contain the general overview and methodologies of the product (click spots etc), the sim-related features like the FMC options, failures, fuel/payload stuff, and the tutorial flights.4. The PMDG written portion will be freely downloadable - the tutorial flights are very detailed and will give you enough to easily judge the quality and completeness of the product for those that like to read manuals first. The Boeing manuals are not going to be freely downloadable, we couldn't get permission for that, but that's the only limitation.

:(

Ah, thanks dazz for quoting this.What a nice and welcome decision there, a customer AND company win situation. :( Mark the 11th of May 2011 as the day PMDG got to a final statement about the manuals.And sorry, dazz, didn't want to disturb your personal freedom and Zen with my stupid questions regarding some vital product characters.

Can I please insist in the manuals? will the QRH be available and will they be printable? It's not that I care all that much, but this IFly a really excited user in the FSX forums has been holding it against the NGX:

there Don't worry, I will continue asking questions, not inly in PMDG related threads (as you may have seen in the past). That's what I call fair and open. I'm a fan of happy customers, not of a special company.And, as you saw, some answers coming out of those questions actually help the product. Look at the outcome, printable manuals, just like demanded and explained as a need.So I can buy both new and upcoming 737s with some confidence now soon.

Time to shut some mouths over at the FSX forums

You won't see me talking dirty about other opinions in "private" forums. Strange thing that my "opponents" (I don't make them to be this) are showing this character trait and also seem to believe that nobody "from outside" reads this stuff.Well, off topic, you are right.Once again thanks for taking the time for quoting the PMDG statements which suddenly left this thread over here, in the more public section. As said, a very welcome decision from the guys. A big and honest thumbsup for this and at least two customers more since Phil and I seemed to have shared viewpoints about the manuals.As they are printable now (then), we may both buy the PMDG 737. Isn't that good news?

I truly hope PMDG releases the SDK, would be nice if before launch, so hardware/software makers would have a head-start.

I assume that some devs already use it since e. g. that nice FS2Crew stuff is announced to come up quickly after the NGX start. Bryan supports the iFly and the PMDG 737 with his software by the way, at least with a button based version if I remember the statements correctly.I'm always looking for the voice stuff though, after experiencing how the immersion gets improved with it and how easy the operation of the bird gets with that listening Copilot.That Copilot is very polite too, since your sneezing may trigger a "checked" from his side. But we still have to try if he gets distracted by the foreign objects on the HUD then. :(

Ah, thanks dazz for quoting this.What a nice and welcome decision there, a customer AND company win situation. :( Mark the 11th of May 2011 as the day PMDG got to a final statement about the manuals.And sorry, dazz, didn't want to disturb your personal freedom and Zen with my stupid questions regarding some vital product characters.there Don't worry, I will continue asking questions, not inly in PMDG related threads (as you may have seen in the past). That's what I call fair and open. I'm a fan of happy customers, not of a special company.And, as you saw, some answers coming out of those questions actually help the product. Look at the outcome, printable manuals, just like demanded and explained as a need.So I can buy both new and upcoming 737s with some confidence now soon.You won't see me talking dirty about other opinions in "private" forums. Strange thing that my "opponents" (I don't make them to be this) are showing this character trait and also seem to believe that nobody "from outside" reads this stuff.Well, off topic, you are right.Once again thanks for taking the time for quoting the PMDG statements which suddenly left this thread over here, in the more public section. As said, a very welcome decision from the guys. A big and honest thumbsup for this and at least two customers more since Phil and I seemed to have shared viewpoints about the manuals.As they are printable now (then), we may both buy the PMDG 737. Isn't that good news?

Anyone with eyes in their heads can see what you've been doing here since your 1st reply to this thread. That's ok with me, I don't care, and nobody cares what you or me think, both products will speak for themselvesAnd you won't see me questioning a product and only one based on pure speculations like performance or the manual availability. Your agenda is plain to see.