I returned mine also. I tried my best to warm up too it but just never could. For the money I was also expecting something close to the Duke in realism and quality.

I returned mine also. I tried my best to warm up too it but just never could. For the money I was also expecting something close to the Duke in realism and quality.

And with some courtesy toward the developer too. Always wondered why some folks feel the urge to announce to all that they've returned a product.Imagine someone announcing evertime they return an item to their local retailer.

And with some courtesy toward the developer too. Always wondered why some folks feel the urge to announce to all that they've returned a product.Imagine someone announcing evertime they return an item to their local retailer.

Because everyone is entitled to there own opinion good or bad. It's nothing personal against F1. I have many of there products that I am happy with. I have other products from Carenado, REX, Captain Sim, Real Air, PMDG, Aerosoft, ORBX, Dreamfleet, Hifi, and of course Eaglesoft which I am very satisfied with. I feel my investment to these developers has given me the right to express my feelings when I am not satisfied.

Wow. I have been in three Cessna 182's with the NavIII option (the G1000 package). Jason Wissmiller's, Bob MacLellan's and a new one I demoed at Hillsboro Aviation. Flight1's rendition captured the real aircraft quite well. Too bad it didn't quite live up to the expectations (and live up to that perceived reality) to those that maybe haven't sat in one. I've also flown the actual N157JT which the RealAir Duke was based on. They both capture the actual aircraft quite well, I wouldn't put either down. They are both very fine examples of a sim developer at their best. To anyone that is considering the Flight1 Cessna 182 I wouldn't let the opinions expressed taint your view and rather encourage you to purchase the Flight1 product and judge for yourself... it does have the best return policy in the simming business so you really have nothing to risk, only something to lose if you don't buy it based on any bashing you might read.

Just because of this thread, I became aware of the add-on and will now probably purchase it.I'm just afraid that it will happen again what happened to me with FS9 - I purchase way too many highquality add-ons of which I become the master of none...

I like the Duke too, but one has to add a fancy RXP unit to get fun out of it.

You are joking? When was the last time you flew using the stick and rudder, looking out of the window and using a map? You should try it sometime;)PS: F1 182 too expensive for me and if the G1000 is anything like the one in the Mustang my framerates will drop into single figures.

Because everyone is entitled to there own opinion good or bad. Including Developers.It's nothing personal against F1. Actually, it kind of is. This is our business, these are our wares and if someone doesnt like something, fine. We back you up. But if you go into a public forum and start listing inaccuracies and misrepresentations, you are indeed soliciting an opinion not based on fact that could indeed alter the potential of a sale of the product. That affects us, it affects anyone in the same situation. So it is personal. I have many of there products that I am happy with. I have other products from Carenado, REX, Captain Sim, Real Air, PMDG, Aerosoft, ORBX, Dreamfleet, Hifi, and of course Eaglesoft which I am very satisfied with. I feel my investment to these developers has given me the right to express my feelings when I am not satisfied.And if you are not satisfied, the best place to go is to the product support site "First" to see if your problem is legit or otherwise.And Mindyerbeak keeps saying that we are off topic. We are anything but...

I hate to go off on a tangent but felt the need to share my opinion here regarding customer expectations and developer attitude.As developers, we deal with an amazing amount of negatives thrown our way, as I'm sure all FS developers do. A common attitude customers appear to have is that since we're a business, we are by default the enemy and we're not doing anything but making money. We're just some big money making machine that could care less about our customers or our products.Now anyone who knows the truth, realizes just how small FS dev companies are. They are built and maintained by people making just a few dollars per hour (we aren't paid hourly of course, but when you add it up, it's quite sad).... and these people do this because they have a passion. Yeah they make a little money (LITTLE being the operative word), usually just enough to keep them afloat and working on new things without having to divert their full attention elsewhere to make a career. These are the successful and established ones.... There are others who haven't quite made that jump yet, and still much depend on their primary "job" to make ends meet. And the situation is getting worse every day with a shrinking market and a constant state of flux regarding future sim platforms.Yet these developers are treated as big companies with hidden and insidious agendas. I guess it's to be expected, how is the customer to know the truth? After all, developers are tech-savvy and highly internet-entrenched, able to make their "shop" appear like a big company pretty easily. Customers demand more and more services, and in order to deliver them the companies even further their appearance as a "bigger" company. Customers want us to be big companies and create more professional products... so we try and give them what they want, but in reality we are so very small.How does any of this relate to this thread? Well as mentioned, we too deal with, on a daily basis, misrepresentation of our products, assumptions, accusations, etc. Many of these incidents also involve promotion of a competitive product. Why isn't a developer allowed to set the record straight, and when a developer does make that bold move, why the hate? See above, I think it's because they are big, bad, money making companies in many people's eyes. Sure, a big company should indeed keep that smile on and realize just about everyone hates them and there is nothing they can do about it, but we're not big companies. We're little guys... and we have a passion about what we are doing. We really care about our products and our customers and the community in whole. If more customers would grasp the reality of the situation, and treated developers a little better, perhaps our little fs world would be a better place? Remember, developers are doing this because they want to see their customers happy, more than anything else. When their customers aren't, they aren't. And if they aren't happy doing what their doing, well you know the rest... It's sad but true that 4 ex developers/friends of mine are no longer in this business because they simply didn't feel appreciated any more. Why stick around when you don't feel appreciated? Well those were 4 developers who were really making strides and giving the community far more than they got in return. Gone. And even sadder, I think every single developer today has seriously considered, or is already making plans to get out of this mess for many of the same reasons. Yeah I know I'm going to get a whole bunch of private "we don't want you anyway, good riddance and don't let the door hit you on the way out" replies. I get those kinds of love notes every day. I'm used to it, and I'm not going anywhere, like it or not. One thing the past few years of experience has given me is extreme callous towards community opinion, just like other developers, and perhaps that's the saddest thing of all. I used to depend on and really take public opinion to heart. It fostered innovation. Long gone, those days are... Paying too much attention to community opinion these days isn't healthy... as I have full experience with.While this phenomenon is not unique to our community, and seems to be the way of the future given the anonymity of the internet and rise of "anti-corporatism", we can't sustain our community this way.... We are small companies, we'll never be big... this is a very small niche "market" getting smaller every day.My message is: Please think twice about how you treat developers, and try to understand their side a little. We are all in this community together and without a 2-way support system it's all going to crumble before your very eyes. However, with some understanding and compassion, the opportunity is incredible. I know everyone wants tons of different new things to add to or transform their simulation experience.... Who is going to do all the work? Developers of course.... Small, passionate developers, who as much as they try to hide it, really care about what you say and think about them. We need your support. With it, we can do some amazing things, together...

While I understand some dev's viewpoints to a certain extent, I very much doubt that the 'sales atmosphere' gains anything positive with heavily defending the own products.Look at the very first answers to his thread and see that the first four people responding already gave a positive backup, one from the customer's viewpoint. Shouldn't that please the dev's eye? At least, it may come in way more convincing for the readers than a salesman defining his baby.It's reasonable of course, but I don't think it's necessary that way when the thread actually shows that quite some folks (including me) are very happy with the C182.

Because everyone is entitled to there own opinion good or bad. It's nothing personal against F1. I have many of there products that I am happy with. I have other products from Carenado, REX, Captain Sim, Real Air, PMDG, Aerosoft, ORBX, Dreamfleet, Hifi, and of course Eaglesoft which I am very satisfied with. I feel my investment to these developers has given me the right to express my feelings when I am not satisfied.

Of course you have the right to exress your opinion. That should never be in question in the United States of America.I was refering to folks who feel some basic need to run to the nearest forum to "Announce" that they've returned some product.

While I understand some dev's viewpoints to a certain extent, I very much doubt that the 'sales atmosphere' gains anything positive with heavily defending the own products.Look at the very first answers to his thread and see that the first four people responding already gave a positive backup, one from the customer's viewpoint. Shouldn't that please the dev's eye? At least, it may come in way more convincing for the readers than a salesman defining his baby.It's reasonable of course, but I don't think it's necessary that way when the thread actually shows that quite some folks (including me) are very happy with the C182.

The point remains... a developer has every right to defend misrepresentation. Period.

I hate to go off on a tangent but felt the need to share my opinion here regarding customer expectations and developer attitude.As developers, we deal with an amazing amount of negatives thrown our way, as I'm sure all FS developers doDamain, your post expresses much. I added a few thoughts which I hope do not detract from your excellent expression but rather enhance the understanding which you convey.A common attitude customers appear to have is that since we're a business, we are by default the enemy.... We are not the enemy.Now anyone who knows the truth, realizes just how small FS dev companies are. And the situation is getting worse every day with a shrinking market and a constant state of flux regarding future sim platforms.... Affects Devs and Users alike.Yet these developers are treated as big companies with hidden and insidious agendas. Customers want us to be big companies and create more professional products so we try and give them what they want, but in reality we are so very small.... And busy trying to deliver.We too deal with, on a daily basis, misrepresentation of our products, assumptions, accusations, etc. Many of these incidents also involve promotion of a competitive product. Such practice is scurilous.Why isn't a developer allowed to set the record straight? We should and are. When a developer does make that bold move, why the hate? Because they can. We're little guys... and we have a passion about what we are doing. We really care about our products and our customers and the community in whole. Yup.If more customers would grasp the reality of the situation, and treated developers a little better, perhaps our little fs world would be a better place? Remember, developers are doing this because they want to see their customers happy, more than anything else. When their customers aren't, they aren't. It's sad but true that 4 ex developers/friends of mine are no longer in this business because they simply didn't feel appreciated any more. Get back on the horse and go the full 8 seconds.Why stick around when you don't feel appreciated? See above.Well those were 4 developers who were really making strides and giving the community far more than they got in return. Gone. Come on back to the fray.... And even sadder, I think every single developer today has seriously considered, or is already making plans to get out of this mess for many of the same reasons. Take heart and do your best work despite the idiocy....Yeah I know I'm going to get a whole bunch of private "we don't want you anyway, good riddance and don't let the door hit you on the way out" replies.I get those kinds of love notes every day. I'm used to it, and I'm not going anywhere, like it or not. One thing the past few years of experience has given me is extreme callous towards community opinion, just like other developers, and perhaps that's the saddest thing of all.I used to depend on and really take public opinion to heart. It fostered innovation. Long gone, those days are... Paying too much attention to community opinion these days isn't healthy.... often fickle.While this phenomenon is not unique to our community, and seems to be the way of the future given the anonymity of the internet and rise of "anti-corporatism", we can't sustain our community this way....My message is: Please think twice about how you treat developers, and try to understand their side a little. We are all in this community together and without a 2-way support system it's all going to crumble before your very eyes. However, with some understanding and compassion, the opportunity is incredible. I know everyone wants tons of different new things to add to or transform their simulation experience.... Who is going to do all the work? Developers of course.... Small, passionate developers, who as much as they try to hide it, really care about what you say and think about them. We need your support. With it, we can do some amazing things, together...

I'm glad to see Ron, Jim and Damian standing up for themselves, their products, and their businesses.In the "anti-corporatism" atmosphere pervading western society, more businesses (and especially those businesses' customers!) need to stand up and shout down the idiots carrying around the banners of victimhood and envy.

I'm just afraid that it will happen again what happened to me with FS9 - I purchase way too many highquality add-ons of which I become the master of none...

Hmmm I have the same issue. Not a bad thing though.

I'm glad to see Ron, Jim and Damian standing up for themselves, their products, and their businesses.In the "anti-corporatism" atmosphere pervading western society, more businesses (and especially those businesses' customers!) need to stand up and shout down the idiots carrying around the banners of victimhood and envy.

Not that those that are carrying banners are always wrong, though. Actually, where it concerns the larger corporations, those banner-carrying customers are often right for as far as I have seen. Not that I can come up with any concrete example, but when I see people target Apple, Microsoft and Google for privacy related stuff, they are right to do that.