Not looking to be in any "clubs", nor am I looking for anything for free.Five facts of life that may help you out:

1. Businesses are people.
2. When businesses lose out, people lose out.
3. Western Education does not teach the first two two facts.
4. Western Media does not exemplify the first two facts.
5. Comedians are not a good source of facts.

Citation please. I'd like to verify those facts if you don't mind.

To back them up...1. People create businesses and hire people to help them run the business.2. When businesses become less productive, employees earn less or are let go and customers lose out on the quality, quantity or the presence of the product.3. OWS4. OWS Media coverage5. John Stewart and Stephen Colbert.

So I can discard your opinion as wrong too, then?

I never said that opinions are wrong. I said to pleas correct me if I was wrong....That being said.....That's the beauty of it!!!! You can do exactly that! You can think what ever you want of anyone's opinion on these forums. That was the whole point of my post and I am actually relieved someone pointed that out.In a nutshell, we will all see opinions fly around here, we must pick out the ones that matter and throw out the ones who don't (this post may fall into this category). As always, no matter what your stance in any issue, act professional no matter if you are the customer or the developer.

From a normally mostly lurker, it would great if AVSIM did not degenerate into what the comments section of all the news sites look like, with the polarized heated political fighting that doesn't seem to get anywhere since no one is really open to hearing each other's viewpoint or changing their mind and usually they don't even stick to the subject of the article and go off onto exaggerated hyperbole to make their point.As a neutral observer and potential future purchaser of this fine aircraft:1. Developers please don't assume that every customer is like the few bad ones that complain take you for granted and expect too much for every 1 of them I think there are 10 of us who are not like that2. Customers please don't assume that every developer is like the few bad ones that release half broken stuff and then either don't reply to support requests or blame your system and resist giving refunds, those tend to build a bad reputation that quickly becomes well known3. In this particular case my experience is that Flight1 is one of the developers that I prefer to buy from both from the quality of the work and the 30 day money back guarantee (one of the best in this business)4. I am interested in potentially purchasing this airplane in the future and was reading this thread for on feedback of the product both good and bad for an informed buying decision somewhere down the line5. Instead I am hearing too much about the political viewpoints and pet peeves of both particular customers and developers of these products, things that aren't really about the airplane and if they need to be said could be discussed with a bit less heat on both sides to keep the conversation productiveLet us not allow politics to degenerate the quality of the discussion and the attitude of the small community that we sim fans are, there is enough of that fighting in every other aspect outside of this hobby and some of us choose to spend time flying FSX and reading the associated forums to get away from it.I am not a frequent poster, so will understand if some of you don't think the opinion counts as much, but I just wanted to see if we could save the thread otherwise I will avoid it and just expect it to be a politics thread.

There are so many theories, reasons, evidences that can be used to defend, for both side of customer and developer.However, my suggestions are1. For the customer: Everything has its drawback, and nothing is perfect, sometime you have to find compromises. Before type your words, make sure it goes though your brain and sensibility...2. For the developer: Admit your products have simplifications and limitations are better than defended them with "reasonable" excuses

Who called you idiotic and why?

Honestly why do u keep arguing? I am a big supporter of Eaglesoft and love your products, but u need to accept the fact the customer is always right. Coming on these forums and expressing your opinion the way u are is not doing u much good. I have honestly lost some respect for u because of your reactions in this thread. Good day.

but u need to accept the fact the customer is always right.

Sorry to disagree because sometimes the customer is uninformed, just wrong, or could even have an agenda. The problem is how some devs/vendors deal with it : a professional approach or the "boo-boo" approach which seems to become a trend lately.

Honestly why do u keep arguing? I am a big supporter of Eaglesoft and love your products, but u need to accept the fact the customer is always right. Coming on these forums and expressing your opinion the way u are is not doing u much good. I have honestly lost some respect for u because of your reactions in this thread. Good day.

This notion that the "customer is always right" is one of big problems of the world for as far as I'm concerned. He is not: he is just a human, and like all humans, he doesn't always know everything. Consequently, he has the capacity of not knowing things that the developer does know. Customers also don't have the right to dictate to the developers what they should do. The developer will think of that himsel. He is also human and has a set of brains that can make such decisions.Whomever came up with "customer is king" should have never come up with that slogan. A customer is just that: a customer.That said, developers shouldn't come in here and make it into a personal discussion. It's reasonable and understandable that they take criticism personally, but it's a whole different thing to discuss it in a such a way on a public forum ("The boo-boo approach", as Jean-Paul calls it).

Hard to put into words exactly, the word "cartoonish" springs to mind. Bit to clean? Not sure what does it, but it's not as pretty as Realair's Duke

Are you sure you don't actually have an issue with the Cessna 182 rather than the Flight1 depiction thereof? :)I can't see anything about it that looks "less real" than the Duke for example. That's pretty much what the plane looks like. The Duke has a more pleasant interior, I agree, I've climbed into real Cessnas and thought I was in a cartoon too.

Boo Boo approach? Only at Avsim can you come in as an alias, spread any kind of mis-information you choose, and tell the developer he must not say a thing lest he be deemed unprofessional and be classified as boo boo.That is what the "trend" is not only lately, but has been for a long time. The truth is, Avsim should be handling these things so that there is a balance that doesnt tip in either obvious direction. But they don't.Too much time wasted on this subject.

An alias Jim ? My account name is my real name. My 29 (!) purchases at Flight1 are listed under Jan Mes (I am Dutch but have lived in France for more than 30 years hence the "Jean" on Avsim). Your records will also show my real phone number and address so please stop the paranoia.And btw, on YOUR forums, my account name is jean-paulm. You know who I am now ?

Sorry to disagree because sometimes the customer is uninformed, just wrong, or could even have an agenda. The problem is how some devs/vendors deal with it...

Spot on. Paying for a product doesn't abrogate your responsibility to be reasonable and realistic. And it's a measure of a vendor's professionalism just how they deal with those who don't understand this concept.Some developers here do tend to rise to the bait rather quickly.Ian

Boo Boo approach? Only at Avsim can you come in as an alias, spread any kind of mis-information you choose, and tell the developer he must not say a thing lest he be deemed unprofessional and be classified as boo boo.That is what the "trend" is not only lately, but has been for a long time. The truth is, Avsim should be handling these things so that there is a balance that doesnt tip in either obvious direction. But they don't.Too much time wasted on this subject.

Oh please. Now it's Avsim's fault? Tell me, what do you want us to do about "these things"? How do you suggest we keep such a topic "in balance"?The fact that you suggest that you are not allowed to say anything is strange. Why do you think that? Nobody is saying that you can't say a thing to defend your product; what people are saying is that it looks unprofessional if you make the entire matter so very personal. It is understandable (at least to me...), but it doesn't seem like the best way to go about this kind of stuff.And my name is Benjamin van Soldt by the way, in case you haven't seen my signature.

Too much time wasted on this subject.

Now that is absolutely true!

Honestly why do u keep arguing? I am a big supporter of Eaglesoft and love your products, but u need to accept the fact the customer is always right. Coming on these forums and expressing your opinion the way u are is not doing u much good. I have honestly lost some respect for u because of your reactions in this thread. Good day.

Hmm, I've searched the thread and am unable to see where anyone called you idiotic...Have a look here for more on customers: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/276473-an-interesting-topic/page__st__25__p__1719743__hl__n400qw__fromsearch__1#entry1719743You are of course welcome to your opinion.