Jason, do I really need to say anything?

 

Not to drag Efrain into this, but he made a "smart &@($*" comment belittling the development cycle of Xplane and not one word was said. Is that because he's a "good guy" and doesn't often put down your beloved Xplane on a regular basis?

 

You even skip right past the post I quoted, made by another member. Thanks Jon for pointing that out.

 

I am not going away, nor do I need to. This once again goes to prove how overly sensitive you people are to a bit of criticism towards a program that is on it's way to being fantastic, but is far from it yet, and yes, does have some serious consequences to the way the development cycle is handled.

 

For gods sake people, how many addon developers are there involved with Xplane now, besides aircraft developers. How many have there been in the past. Wake up, and realize that the reason their not involved is because of the development cycle / business model of Laminar Research. Either that or they just refuse to do business with / for the owner. Some of you say "well it's not for everyone", your right, it's not for everyone, and that includes top notch addon developers. The evidence is everywhere, yet you continue to fight against the notion that anything is wrong. Even when others, cooler heads than me, suggest the same, you either don't say anything or just shrug it off in disbelief. Well start believing, the only thing that's going to change Xplane is Mr. Meyer, and for it to flourish "HE" is going to have to change his way of thinking and doing business. The proof is in the lack of developers at the door to make Xplane the program it deserves to be. If there were even 5 top notch addon developers making stuff for Xplane, weather, atc, ai traffic, to name a few, then yes, mine and others arguments would not hold any water, but their aren’t, and there hasn’t been. This program NEEDS the backing, and base of addon developers that are out there. Time to change and bring them in. Their not going to come until HE changes.

 

Do we really need to go over this again?

 

Glen

 

Edit: Gregg, you got in while I was typing. Yes I agree, but to be honest, it all contributes to the lack of outside addon development for Xplane, period. Do you want to wait until Xplane 11-12-13 for Austin to "try" and iron out the glaring issues that so desperately need addons or would you rather change the way things are done now, so developers can feel safe in providing addons for Xplane now, and in the future?

This program NEEDS the backing and base of addon developers that are out there.

 

I agree!

Haven't been following this thread, and I really regret having read some of the posts, although I also know we are, after all, all good people and active XP users and, users looking for the platform to grow even more.

 

Developing for such a dynamic platform brings, nonetheless, a lot of problems for the 3pds, and some of them, with a thorough history of development and well established business for the MSFS franchise. So, I also believe that something has to change within LR, but at the same time I have to think that right now Austin is involved with a cause that will most certainly keep him busy all day long, and most probably all night long as well. I am with him in his fight against Patent Trols, and apart from having signed the Petition at the White House site, I have long quited sending him email messages asking for this or that to be implemented / modified. I look forward for a moment in the (so I hope) near future where he, and LR as a team, can stop and think seriously about the best alternatives to make XP and even more popular simulation platform.

If you look at the history of X-Plane you'll see that it's been in BETA since X-Plane 1! Perpetual BETAS is Austin's chosen method of development! This is one of the reasons 3PD's have kept away! That there isn't a long enough time period between stable platforms to develop on. Once one Beta ends, the next one starts. So if you are waiting for XP10 to be out of Beta, you're going to have a long wait, By then XP11 will be in Beta!!!

 

Laminar is aware of this and has been more conscientious lately of trying to reach out to third-party developers. Their general rule is "If your add-on worked with the previous stable version, and the next stable version breaks it, don't fix it because we screwed up. Let us know so that we can fix it." The ideal is that X-Plane should not offer a moving target across a single major version. Laminar also makes the beta builds readily available (it's a simple checkbox in the updater), so a third-party developer can test their add-on against the latest beta and let Laminar know early on in the development cycle if there are any problems.

 

So Laminar is getting there, I think, maybe just not quite as fast as some would like.

Laminar is aware of this and has been more conscientious lately of trying to reach out to third-party developers. Their general rule is "If your add-on worked with the previous stable version, and the next stable version breaks it, don't fix it because we screwed up. Let us know so that we can fix it." The ideal is that X-Plane should not offer a moving target across a single major version. Laminar also makes the beta builds readily available (it's a simple checkbox in the updater), so a third-party developer can test their add-on against the latest beta and let Laminar know early on in the development cycle if there are any problems.

 

So Laminar is getting there, I think, maybe just not quite as fast as some would like.

 

Lets hope so.

 

I really hope this other stuff in his life is taken care of in a timely fashion, and he comes out of it unscathed. I myself have just gone through 4 years of litigation (thankfully I won), and it's not at all a fun time, although rewarding if your on the "right" side of the law. Hope "they" find him to be on the right side of the law.

 

Glen

Do you want to wait until Xplane 13-14-15 for Austin to "try" and iron out the glaring issues that so desperately need addons or would you rather change the way things are done now, so developers can feel same inproviding addons for Xplane now, and in the future?

 

I am an advocate for a more traditional release schedule. While I appreciate the ongoing updates to repair needed shortcomings of which I've been vocal about in months past, I share the opinion that a more traditional release process would be beneficial in the long run.

 

External developers would have a clear opportunity to fill in the gaps, and customers would have less "stress" waiting to see if feature X, Y, and Z will ever get fixed during the version's lifecycle. For customers not used to the process (eg: most of us FSX transplants), the continuous update process does add a bit of frustration to their X-Plane experience - especially when the thing they most want fixed, finished, or improved goes untouched update after update. This is something that a more patient, experienced user of X-Plane may no longer consider an issue or concern.

 

People would still complain if it was a more cut-and-dry process ("Why didn't they add XYZ to this version! Ugh!"), but it would put a stamp of finality on the version, help let users "get over it" faster, and possibly let more 3rd parties step in to improve the platform in their own right between major releases.

 

...all in my opinion, of course.

Why work on a 3rd party ATC addon if it's being improved by Laminar*? Why fix this or that shortcoming when you have no idea if it will be repaired in the next update for free by the publisher?

 

If you listened to the AVSIM Teamspeak conference with Austin, you would have heard when asked about ATC, he thinks the ATC/AI system is fine as it is. In his words he thinks "it rocks", and was not in his outline for the planned development for the next 2 years. So unless the 3PD's can do something about it, (I know of one that was working on it, that did look promising, but I haven't heard anything since!) I think it's going to stay as is for the foreseeable future.

If you listened to the AVSIM Teamspeak conference with Austin, you would have heard when asked about ATC, he thinks the ATC/AI system is fine as it is. In his words he thinks "it rocks", and was not in his outline for the planned development for the next 2 years.

 

To make such a bold statement as this about XP10 ATC, Austin can never have really used it in earnest.

I can understand it not being a personal priority for him, but he needs to listen to his customers a little more.

If he wants to buy any more planes or defend any more lawsuits he will need to generate more sales.

 

Many buyers of XP believe (and rightly so) that by doing so they investing in it's future development, in which things like decent ATC / AI / seasons etc will come to satisfactory fruition at some point. This simulator deserves that.

Austin has made his money on XP10 not in people that like XP for what it is and wish nothing changed, but by people that all like what XP has to offer at this time, but see what they have as a STARTING point. No feature in XP is fully finished, nor should it ever be. There are always ways of doing something better or smarter or adding a feature that wasn't important before, but is now.

 

The biggest letdown with XP is that you never know what is on the chopping block for feature development and stagnation until the current version ceases development. Austin is very secretive about his goals for XP and what he feels is lacking. If I were him, I would use reality as my goal or at least a product produced by the competition as my standard. If your product is the same or more cost as a competitor product, but delivers a lesser overall quality, who in their right mind would buy such a thing?

In the case of X-Plane, the demo leaves nothing behind the curtain. While you can't fly in all regions of the world, it is not like the FSX demo (St. Maarten) where they dressed up the local area above and beyond normal conditions.

 

 

Say again Greg? You mean like in the XP10 how KSEA is depicted realistically and then you go to KDLH, my home airport (greater than 10,000 ft long Ry), and it's a barren wasteland with no buildings?

Say again Greg? You mean like in the XP10 how KSEA is depicted realistically and then you go to KDLH, my home airport (greater than 10,000 ft long Ry), and it's a barren wasteland with no buildings?

 

You're totally right - I was called on this way earlier in the thread and conceded the point back a hundred or so posts ago, back on post #114. My original post had me stuck on the notion that people wouldn't concentrate on KSEA, but would see the other parts of the sim and take that for what it was... I completely forgot/overlooked that KSEA was a special case scenario... not at all unlike Microsoft's treatment of St. Maarten TNCM.

 

But, that important aspect aside, the demo does give a good flavor of X-Plane once you get off the KSEA airport property.

Yeah truth be told I got bored of this thread after a few pages in lol.... I just happened to come up to your post

Here a couple of more shots flying out of Madeira LPMA with real weather on and using these HD v2 optional clouds.

http://forums.x-plan...&showfile=18213

Here are a couple more at a different time of day:

By the way these two and the previous post, were taken with 10.20 Beta 11, 32bit

Looks good Pirata.

I like the synergistic ways the various aspects work together. For instance, the clouds themselves may not be remarkable, but group them with their cast shadows on phototextured terrain, and you get... well... this: