Well said TJ. At the end of the day it's just a game. :smile:

 

What? What? :unsure:

You know what I say, If you want to be religious at least pick a real religion!

There is no point in wasting your time believing in BS

FSX is a game! If you are flying PMDG level aircraft in FSX and following

real world procedures on VATSIM and paying so much attention to real world

detail that you could dawn an airline pilots uniform and walk into the pilots lounge

at international airport and introduce yourself to a few pilots sitting at the bar and shoot the no.2 

with them for an hour or two and they could not tell that is exactly what you are full off,

THEN IT IS STILL A GAME! The difference between what they are doing and what you are

doing is the difference between fantasy and reality. If you don't understand that you are living

in that fantasy world in which case FSX is not a game. If you do understand that you are living in the

real world and FSX is a game. :t0152:

 

 

NOW P3D on the other hand! That's a Simulator. That's not a game and I am not going to be in the least playing or being entertained while I am learning using that game! Simulator. I meant Simulator. Blast the back key isn't working....... :lol:

You know what I say, If you want to be religious at least pick a real religion!

There is no point in wasting your time believing in BS

FSX is a game! If you are flying PMDG level aircraft in FSX and following

real world procedures on VATSIM and paying so much attention to real world

detail that you could dawn an airline pilots uniform and walk into the pilots lounge

at international airport and introduce yourself to a few pilots sitting at the bar and shoot the no.2 

with them for an hour or two and they could not tell that is exactly what you are full off,

THEN IT IS STILL A GAME! The difference between what they are doing and what you are

doing is the difference between fantasy and reality. If you don't understand that you are living

in that fantasy world in which case FSX is not a game. If you do understand that you are living in the

real world and FSX is a game. :t0152:

 

 

What you are decribing here simply affirms that flight simulation (whether a game or otherwise) is not real aviation.    That we're not actually flying through the air.......

 

But I think we all already knew that.

 

So yes, as you point out it is far from the reality of flying lumps of metal through the air, with real consequences etc, but no-one was suggesting it was 'real'.  The point is whether FS can be considered a genuine 'simulation' or whether it cannot (in which case it's a game).

 

Is the £10m British Airways A320 Level D Simulator based at EGLL a 'game' ?   Of course it's not (despite the fact that it doesn't 'really' fly).

Perhaps this a point of contention between the two 'camps' of FS.  There are arguably 'two' camps.  Play minded vs Work minded. 

 

There are those who mainly fly for recreation, as someone who owns a small GA plane might.  These folks primarily fly GAs, warbirds, airshow type planes...etc. maybe a bizjet if they are playing the 'If I were a billionaire and could go anywhere mindset.'

 

There are also those who fly as a virtual 'occupation'.  This involves mainly flying airliners, freighters, maybe even GAs in a occupational sense, perhaps even military aircraft as well....ie all 'work' aircraft.  

 

Could it be those who fly for recreation see FSX as recreation, thereby don't mind if it is suggested to be a game.  Heck millionaires who own a light GA plane probably refer to it as a 'toy'

 

Could it also be that those who fly for 'work' take it more seriously since 'work' is not a game to them, therefore it must be a simulator.  

 

This gets muddled tho because games can be educational and simulators can be fun, and why it ultimately doesn't matter.  Are 'realistic' war games such as DCS considered a game or simulator?  

 

It is all semantics in the end.  It is king of amusing.  Star Trek fans also get into 'heated' debates and some take it personally if you refer to them as trekkies or trekkers...like it makes a difference.  Whatever makes them happy lol.

 

Cheers

TJ

That's actually a great way to look at it TJ, and your post illustrates an interesting dichotomy.  For me, when I fly the sim, it's rarely to fly a long flight from A to B.  I use FS primarily as a tool to practice procedures, fly an unfamiliar approach, or to practice other things that would be too dangerous to do in the real world when a safety pilot isn't available, like spins, for instance.  That's not to say that I don't sometimes fly it just for fun, or to relax a little, but my sim time is mostly tied to real world applications and I take the practice part of it seriously.  What I find interesting in your comment is that, while I take the sim seriously, when I go out to fly for real, I'll often tell my wife that I'm going out to play.  I think given that most of my flying is purely recreational, and my flight time over the years has been just plain hours of fun, interspersed with the occasional moments of sheer terror, it's my way of telling her that there's nothing to worry about.  And what's funny about that is, while she's perfectly comfortable and enjoys flying with me, she knows better than to interrupt me when I'm flying the sim, lol.  I think Freud would have a field day with this community.  :lol:

And for the record...it's Trekker's!!  Trekkie is an insult.  :Big Grin:

Cheers,

Jeff

There are arguably 'two' camps.

 

 

If you can log it... its' a sim.  :wink:

I say it again, a game has an opponent, a winner and a looser, there are no opponents, winners or loosers in FSX or P3D. Its simulation not a game, big difference, this is a no brainer guys !!

Try telling the guy that bought one of these it's a game!

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2551452/Germany-company-sells-cockpit-simulator-200-000.html

I got distracted by the girl on the left. ;-)

Ok. I've been making jokes because I have a problem taking the issue seriously. To me, the people claiming not a game, are suffering a bit of selective denial.

 

Point 1) The product is made by Microsoft game studios.

 

Point 2) To this day, the product is still clearly listed at Microsoft under games: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Flight-Simulator-X-Gold-Edition-PC-Game/productID.253657900

 

Point 3) Seriously?  :blink: 

 

Point 4) The first three minutes of the video below should remind us of what FSX was/is really all about, and why its the most successful civilian flight franchise ever. They wanted, attempted to cater to, and openly accepted every imaginable type of user, and that's exactly what they got. FSX isn't the private preserve of just a certain elite group: it was made for everyone.

 

By forgetting that, we crowd out diversity, and edge toward becoming an even tinier mono-culture than we already are: smaller and more isolated and less and less capable of funding further development of the hobby we obviously care so much about. The whole "its not a game" thing is needlessly divisive, basically elitist, and generally off-putting.

 

Its silly.

Of course FSX IS a game. Anyone who thinks otherwise shouldn't be allowed near a real aeroplane without adult supervision

 

However, it DOES give a good basic understanding of flight, controls and instruments and IS effective as an IFR basic trainer.

 

So maybe it ISN'T a game after all. 

 

It's both.

 

When I use FSX to practice instrument approach procedures it's not a game, but when I do barrel rolls in the PMDG NGX is most certainly is. Either way it's always a simulator.

While I'm waiting for my popcorn to cool a bit...

 

The FSX application is clearly a simulation: it attempts to model all aspects of the reality of aircraft flight, and provides 'canned' and configurable usage scenarios in regards to what it simulates.  I work in simulation lab for an aerospace company and our simulations do exactly what I described above.

 

It's up to its user base to decide how to approach its use:  is it a Game or Serious work. Consider these points: "Hey, this is fun; much better than any other video game I've ever played" or "The hard work I've spent becoming competent 737 (sim) pilot is totally rewarding, but maybe not that fun for having fun was not my primary goal".

 

Since MS wants to make money selling its wares, it markets its flight simulator (FSX) as a game.  I bet there are far more copies of FSX collecting dust on shelves in homes than in active use for this reason:  hey this FSX 'game' looks like it could be fun...oh crud it's really only a boring sim.  This is what killed Flight IMO: that idiot Ballmer running MS actually believed it WAS a game.

 

 

I got distracted by the girl on the left. ;-)

 

I got distracted by both of them.

 

I bet the guys in the simulator camp didn't even notice the girls.

Whahahahaha :lol:

I say it again, a game has an opponent, a winner and a looser, there are no opponents, winners or loosers in FSX or P3D. Its simulation not a game, big difference, this is a no brainer guys !!

 

Within FSX, you can have air racing (air racing was a selling point of the Acceleration exp. wasn't it?), aerobatics competition, skills challenges, even combat now with Tackpack...there are winners and losers there.  Do you consider DCS a simulator or game as it simulates air combat...winners and losers even tho it is named Digital Combat Simulator

 

Another question, for folks that feel FSX can only be a simulator, If you were responsible for hiring new pilots at an airline.  Would you consider FSX time to be valid flight time/training for the prospect's experience?  Would you except PMDG NGX flight hours on a resume

 

How about this question....I start out in the A2A Civil P-51.  I diligently follow preflight, checklist and operational procedures required for a safe operation of the airplane.  However I ignore FAA and TSA regulations, and fly aerobatic routines, fly low and fast over cities, roads, land at a Class B airport and park at an airline gate.  Am I simming or gaming?  B)   Does it matter or do I care?  Nope. ^_^

 

 

Cheers

TJ

 

 

I am currently (as i type) in a disagreement on wether SX is a "game" pr not. WHICH IT IS CLEARLEEEEY NOT!

 

For those in the hobby it is NOT a game, but....

 

To the "causal" masses, it's packaged as a game, plays as a game (missions), and is not a word processor (not a utilitarian app for work.)

 

Thing is non-simmers outnumber us, they don't understand our culture, just calmly humor them.

 

 

 

All of the programs that we have transfer in to real life flying. They think PMDG and pfpx ARE ALL GLORYFIED games.

 

Third party add-ons are akin DLC, they enhance the primary software, Whomever thinks PMDG, etc. are stand alone clearly is ignorant of the hobby, just calmly humor them, you won't win.

 

 

 

When they are actually certified programs by boeing and airbus. 

BACK ME UP! THIS IS A KARMELLO SITUATION.

 

They're LICENSED not certified, there's a difference,

 

If you were to solely get 10,000 hours in an FSX PMDG 737-800WL and then move straight into a real 737-800WL, it'd look very familiar, but you'll crash the plane.

I got distracted by both of them.

 

I bet the guys in the simulator camp didn't even notice the girls.

Whahahahaha :lol:

 

Girl on the right, blondes are more fun ! and no wedding ring, bet the guys in the game camp didnt notice that !

Ok Busterbvi, if a game requires an opposition and a loser, explain to the hundreds of millions of users why Angry Birds is not a game. Or Solitare. Or Candy Crush. You are allowed to go into a game with the sole intent of beating nothing but your own record (like not floating on flare, or getting on the runway at all). Do you consider that achievement a loss if that was your intent? Thousands of marathon runners do it. Most Olympians do it. By your definition, trial law is a game. So is the contract tender process. (admittedly there are days when you have to think that so as not to wind up a quivering mess in the corner...)