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jfri

First impression disappointment

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I bought P3D2 three weeks ago and I can't help but feeling a bit disappointed in it.

First a lack of add on products. I discovered that most of my FSX add on didn't work in P3D2. In FSX I have a lot of ORBX regions and airports. In P3D2 I only have the regions since the airport add on are not converted to P3D2 yet.

Second and more important performance. Taking advantage of the new features seem very difficult since it will hit performance very hard. I have stuttering blurries and low fps (flying in ORBX PNW). Since P3D2 is no updated FSX but new code that makes better use of the videocard I hoped for more. Finding the optimal slider settings seems very difficult. Question is how to get the most out of P3D2 and benefit from features not available in FSX (DX10)?

I have already spent money on the EMT tool and a new SSD intended for P3D. I find the two A2A GA planes very interesting. I have the C172 trainer for FSX. Need to decide if to buy the P3D versions.

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All I can say is that there is a lot of content on this forum where people have gone through the same process as you. People put a lot of effort into compiling compatibility lists, performance tweaks, hardware discussions etc. There is just way too much information to summarise in one post. My advise is that you ready the stickies on this forum, and look through the posts of relevant topics. If you have any specific queries there are many people around that will gladly help you out, but I suspect you may have to take a few hours and read through these first.

 

There are answers to all your questions in this forum, but you are going to have to read through them yourself.

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jfri I advise you to start right here to save you a lot of pain as you have an overclock you can skip that part - give it a try would really be surprised if this does not help you starting on post 56 - the only thing I see a bit lacking is your video card ram and I would pump up that motherboard ram to at least 16 gb - anyway give this a try

 

Here is the link

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/442898-my-new-observations-in-p3d/page-3#entry3000456

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 3 weeks ago!!!!   OMG!! The horror!!   Part of the problem of people blindly moving to P3dv2 is that people want all these new features that DX11 and updated coding can provide BUT still want their FSX addons to work... SERIOUSLY?

 

"Finding the optimal slider settings seems very difficult."   Boo Hoo... So work it out!

 

ORBX is very busy doing their own thing as well as working on providing updates to P3dv2 owners for FREE! 

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It's easy! Get your refund from LM and stay with FSX/DX10.

Spirit

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The big problem people are having, including, originally myself, is comparing FSX with P3d, when in actuality they have very little in common.

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3 weeks ago!!!! OMG!! The horror!! Part of the problem of people blindly moving to P3dv2 is that people want all these new features that DX11 and updated coding can provide BUT still want their FSX addons to work... SERIOUSLY?

 

"Finding the optimal slider settings seems very difficult." Boo Hoo... So work it out!

 

ORBX is very busy doing their own thing as well as working on providing updates to P3dv2 owners for FREE!

Very useful and helpful.

And you use the word "SERIOUSLY"!!!!!

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BUT still want their FSX addons to work... SERIOUSLY?

 

Why shouldn't they want them to work? Even today this is what Lockheed Martin states:

 

Prepar3D furthers the development of Microsoft® ESP™ while maintaining compatibility with Microsoft Flight Simulator X, allowing many thousands of add-ons to be used within Prepar3D.

http://www.prepar3d.com/

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And many thousands of addons do work....after a fashion (I know because I have most of them) but they were written for a simulation that was last updated many years ago. P3Dv2 is not FSX. If you want P3Dv2 to work at it's best then you should only install products that are 100% compatible with it.

 

You could install legacy products and see if the result is worthwhile to you but I recommend that you keep good records and backups so that you can roll back if you need to.

 

If it is that important to you to always have 100% backwards compatiblility, stick with FSX

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And many thousands of addons do work....after a fashion (I know because I have most of them) but they were written for a simulation that was last updated many years ago. P3Dv2 is not FSX. If you want P3Dv2 to work at it's best then you should only install products that are 100% compatible with it.

That sounds simple enough, but how can we know for certain what addons are 100% compatible with P3D2? There are a lot of addons being marketed as being P3D2 ready, and they will install into P3D and run mostly ok, yet few of these are actually 100% compatible with P3D2.2.

 

Whenever there is a problem, the third party developer often blames it on a P3D bug. For instance, none of the windsocks work in their "P3D compatible" Orbx airports (like those in the PNW scenery); and the lights on A2A's two "P3D native" aircraft still have issues. Both developers claim that these issues are due to "P3D bugs," but I haven't seen any acknowledgement from LM that they are to blame for these bugs, or that they are working to fix them.

 

Note that the above were just chosen as examples. Overall, I'm very happy with A2A's P3D aircraft and with Orbx's P3D2 scenery. I'm trilled that both developers are now releasing P3D2 products. The problem is that, unlike FSX, P3D is still being developed, so actual 100% compatibility between the latest version of P3D and third party addon is a rare thing at this point.

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Prepar3D furthers the development of Microsoft® ESP™ while maintaining compatibility with Microsoft Flight Simulator X, allowing many thousands of add-ons to be used within Prepar3D.

Wonder if  they can name  all the thousands of  addons  that can be installed and are able  to function

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And many thousands of addons do work....after a fashion (I know because I have most of them) but they were written for a simulation that was last updated many years ago. P3Dv2 is not FSX. If you want P3Dv2 to work at it's best then you should only install products that are 100% compatible with it.

 

But that's what not Lockheed Martin said, so it's not surprising some people feel disappointment.

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For instance, none of the windsocks work in their "P3D compatible" Orbx airports (like those in the PNW scenery); and the lights on A2A's two "P3D native" aircraft still have issues. Both developers claim that these issues are due to "P3D bugs," but I haven't seen any acknowledgement from LM that they are to blame for these bugs, or that they are working to fix them.

 

 

Why would they let you know?

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Whenever there is a problem, the third party developer often blames it on a P3D bug. For instance, none of the windsocks work in their "P3D compatible" Orbx airports (like those in the PNW scenery); and the lights on A2A's two "P3D native" aircraft still have issues. Both developers claim that these issues are due to "P3D bugs," but I haven't seen any acknowledgement from LM that they are to blame for these bugs, or that they are working to fix them.

 

What A2A says is a bug, is a bug that's been noticed by many aircraft developers. For some reason, not every file associated with an aircraft is being loaded upon initial startup, requiring the aircraft to be reloaded in order for everything to show up.

 

As for scenery, a similar bug is present in that not all scenery files (especially mesh), is being loaded at startup, requiring the scenery library to be reloaded and then the scenery to be reloaded for it to work.

 

As for the windsocks, some of the windsocks work and some of the older ones do not. For example, the windsock at 05S works fine, but it's using newer code.

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It has to be your addons. I am rocking P3Dv2 with ONLY addons that have a P3Dv2 installer and I get great performance and visuals. My computer is also weaker than yours.

 

I would suggest doing this first.Uninstall ALL you addons you have for P3Dv2. Leave your weather addon and maybe texture if you use REX, because those work fine. Then, go to you addon makers we site, and actually see if they support P3Dv2. Install only those addons that are supported, be realistic with your sliders, as right now LM knows that cloud shadows KILL performance at certain times of the day.

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I will have to admit that not everyone's settings will work for you, I have been following Richards posts about his findings and each time he posts I will make a change, he has helped me but I have also made changes on my own that have given me the look I need to have from a cockpit. I feel P3d is a fantastic Sim and I look forward to the next update. I can also say that you need to choose your add-ons wisely, because I thought  as long as you use the migration tool everything would work correctly, I was WRONG!!!

 

 

With my settings the way I like them, most of the sliders at full, I am enjoying my experience, here I am climbing out of KROC this morning in the typical upstate morning Haze.......I know it may not be the best pic but I am not a photo buff....

 

Sorry. It seems that no matter how many times I have tried to upload the picture using the image link it just never works.


http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/71GTXD21/KROCMorningHaze.jpg

 

 

I guess this can work...

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The big problem people are having, including, originally myself, is comparing FSX with P3d, when in actuality they have very little in common.

 

Howard is right, we're making a mistake, P3DV2 has very little FSX.

As for third-party programs, they say it's compatible, install is a step function perfectly is another step, this will be the day that proved PMDG put some product in your "P3D V2 Compatible", without a shadow of doubt the product will be really compatible.

At the moment we have silence from the LM staff, good sign, surely we have a solid next update.

I have a concern over certain media, cooperation between developers and hardware manufacturers, I think the product should be standard, ie it is then DX11 Nvidia, ATI or another manufacturer will be able to have good results, making the offer more attractive features up to each hardware manufacturer, cartels have already left on our planet.

 

João Alfredo

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Jfri, I was having a little buyer's remorse the first couple of weeks too. I am a little luckier than you in that I don't have a whole bunch of legacy FSX add ons at all. The ones that I have purchased recently, I made sure were for P3D. But as a whole there just wasn't a significant improvement from FSX on the surface. A little working with the display setting in the app (and NOT having to futz around with a bunch of tweaks elsewhere) and I pretty quickly found visual superiority to FSX and much smoother performance. If I did have a big investment in add ons that don't work in P3D, I would certainly be less enthusiastic. I think a read where ORBX is very much committed to P3D so I would expect them to address any compatibly issues sooner rather than later.

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jfri I advise you to start right here to save you a lot of pain as you have an overclock you can skip that part - give it a try would really be surprised if this does not help you starting on post 56 - the only thing I see a bit lacking is your video card ram and I would pump up that motherboard ram to at least 16 gb - anyway give this a try

 

Here is the link

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/442898-my-new-observations-in-p3d/page-3#entry3000456

 

I tried your suggested settings and in the Seattle area it didn't help very much. The biggest performance killer seem to be the Seattle area itself. In ORBX Australia Cairns I got great performance. I'm somewhat curious about some of your suggestions.

Why setting water at max and user vehicle reflection on and disabling or lower many other settings?

In REX4 why using 32 bit texture compression algorithms ?  Isn't DXT strongly recommended for better performance?

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I bought P3D2 three weeks ago and I can't help but feeling a bit disappointed in it.

First a lack of add on products. I discovered that most of my FSX add on didn't work in P3D2. In FSX I have a lot of ORBX regions and airports. In P3D2 I only have the regions since the airport add on are not converted to P3D2 yet.

Second and more important performance. Taking advantage of the new features seem very difficult since it will hit performance very hard. I have stuttering blurries and low fps (flying in ORBX PNW). Since P3D2 is no updated FSX but new code that makes better use of the videocard I hoped for more. Finding the optimal slider settings seems very difficult. Question is how to get the most out of P3D2 and benefit from features not available in FSX (DX10)?

I have already spent money on the EMT tool and a new SSD intended for P3D. I find the two A2A GA planes very interesting. I have the C172 trainer for FSX. Need to decide if to buy the P3D versions.

The airports do work you just gotta shoe horn them in I have about 15 or so orbx airports installed in V2 if you want I'll tell you how to install them its super easy since you have the EMT. I can also explain how to get rid of blurries hit Ctrl+ALT+DEL, select task manager, Click the processes tab then find P3d in the processes, right click on it and select set affinity, then select all of your CPU cores your blurries should go away this has to be done everytime you want to use V2 and just an FYI LM is fixing the blurry thing in 2.3.

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Whenever there is a problem, the third party developer often blames it on a P3D bug. For instance, none of the windsocks work in their "P3D compatible" Orbx airports (like those in the PNW scenery); and the lights on A2A's two "P3D native" aircraft still have issues. Both developers claim that these issues are due to "P3D bugs," but I haven't seen any acknowledgement from LM that they are to blame for these bugs, or that they are working to fix them.

Arwen, Zach Heylmun (Software Engineer - Prepar3D® Team) replied to my report of "incomplete loading..." on May 15th:

Hey Mr. Bill,

I believe that the issue with incomplete loading of effects has been resolved, and the fix should be in the next version.

L-M is also very much aware of the windsock issue as well, but no 'fix' has been mentioned yet to my knowledge.
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"Sorry. It seems that no matter how many times I have tried to upload the picture using the image link it just never works."

 

Nick use tinypic please its the best option

 

===========================================================================================

"Why setting water at max and user vehicle reflection on and disabling or lower many other settings?"

 

Water has a long way to go compared to FSX hope they address this as it is terrible - as for water reflections I turn them on when I see fit - my settings are not the end all you can do what you wish - you ask why would He not turn this or that on - I do but what I presented was a good base line thats all - I want to turn everything up but as P3D is a work in progress I tread lightly on these choices and do experiment depending on my flight scenerios - give P3D a chance it still blows FSX out of the water as it is - P3D V 2.2 just came out give it some time - it will payoff I have no doubt - also keep in mind they are not catering to the casual users but seem to be listening and we should be grateful 

 

=========================================================================================

 

"In REX4 why using 32 bit texture compression algorithms ?  Isn't DXT strongly recommended for better performance?

I saw no difference

=========================================================================================

 

On a side note did not know this but Nvidia has a GTX780 6gig card - I have not checked how it compares to a Titan but this may be a nice option for those needing an improvement

 

See here not a bad price compared to a Titan but do your homework as I have not yet 

 

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=gtx+780+6gb&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=31872258896&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12062690797527001178&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_7r6w50wsuo_b

 

==========================================================================================

 

FYI I would bet LM developers are using Titans

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I tried your suggested settings and in the Seattle area it didn't help very much. The biggest performance killer seem to be the Seattle area itself. In ORBX Australia Cairns I got great performance. I'm somewhat curious about some of your suggestions.

Why setting water at max and user vehicle reflection on and disabling or lower many other settings?

In REX4 why using 32 bit texture compression algorithms ?  Isn't DXT strongly recommended for better performance?

The terrain for PNW took 3 times longer to load over Seattle comparing with P3d default on my computer. Moving the texture and mesh resolution sliders to the left helps much more than reducing the autogen density for me. Your mileage may vary though. The other thing to improve performance is minimizing the road traffic to around 5 to 10%. PNW traffic seems to be much heavier than the default at the same percentage. Other tweaking such as AM and tessellation are not conclusive for me. You may have to find your own optimal settings on a case by case basis.  

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Found a step-up program for current evga users who purchased their card in the last 90 days -still not on par with a titan but seems most are waiting for a TI series 6 gig card around the corner

 

http://eu.evga.com/support/stepup/

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Arwen, Zach Heylmun (Software Engineer - Prepar3D® Team) replied to my report of "incomplete loading..." on May 15th:

L-M is also very much aware of the windsock issue as well, but no 'fix' has been mentioned yet to my knowledge.

Arwen, Zach Heylmun (Software Engineer - Prepar3D® Team) replied to my report of "incomplete loading..." on May 15th:

L-M is also very much aware of the windsock issue as well, but no 'fix' has been mentioned yet to my knowledge.

Thanks Bill! I'm hoping that these two issues might possibly be fixed in the next P3D update. The beacons in the A2a aircraft do seem to be a loading bug (since reloading the aircraft generally fixes it), but the Cherokee's landing light not illuminating the scenery is something else, as reloading has never fixed that for me.

 

The non-working windsocks are apparently restricted to FS9 based windsocks (according to Orbx), so does that make it a bug or a compatibility issue?

 

Again, I was only using A2A and Orbx as examples of a few things that are not fully functioning in P3D2, while these items apparently work fine in FSX. My main point was that P3D2 is still in development (which is a good thing), so it is going to be a lot harder to find addons for it that are truly 100% compatible (which can be a bit frustrating).

 

Edited: Lewis just posted this on the A2A forums in regards to the light issues: "... we are looking into the main light for the first update. But all other lighting is fixed via a reload and is due to a P3D bug that should be fixed in 2.3 we believe."

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