Well with the above information i think that we can finally say goodbye to the thought of 64-bit P3D in the next iteration.

 

I don't understand the argument about 3rd parties, they will have to take the plunge at some point, what are they waiting for?  What changes in the next couple of years with the 3rd parties?

Wouldn't it make more sense to offer 2 exe files, an experimental 64-bit one and a compatible 32-bit one, that way the 3rd parties would be encouraged to start development, as it stands the 3rd parties will just sit churning out 32-bit add-ons increasing the pain when the time finally comes.

Well with the above information i think that we can finally say goodbye to the thought of 64-bit P3D in the next iteration.

 

I don't understand the argument about 3rd parties, they will have to take the plunge at some point, what are they waiting for?  What changes in the next couple of years with the 3rd parties?

Wouldn't it make more sense to offer 2 exe files, an experimental 64-bit one and a compatible 32-bit one, that way the 3rd parties would be encouraged to start development, as it stands the 3rd parties will just sit churning out 32-bit add-ons increasing the pain when the time finally comes.

 

It's been said so many times, but, LM's core business is not the person that loads P3D with all kinds of add ons to the point where it stalls, it is producing a reliable training aid. LM probably doesn't give a rat's backside whether or not they get a 64 bit version right away. Maybe a year or two down the road, maybe. Not going to be this year that's for sure... 

Wow, $4500 for PPL.  Where?  I am saving funds for this year for PPL.  I figured it would be around 10K.  Would love to know about this.

 

Once I get PPL - I can then get "ultra badass graphics with no lag or vas and realism set to well...real" in plane :-)

 

 

When I got my PPL in 1978, I was renting a brand new C-152 that the first time I flew it, only had 9 hours on it which was the flight from Wichita to Ft Lauderdale Florida. The cost for the new aircraft  was $19 an hour wet, and the instructor was $10 an hour for dual. I could rent a fairly new C 172 that was a lease back for $35 an hour wet. This was in Hollywood Florida. I got my PPL in about 43 hours. Today you have to have a great deal of money to start flying, I couldn't afford it anymore. 

 

I got my license in South Florida, which was great for learning to deal with high volumes of air traffic and ATC. Typical  flight right after I soloed was to take off at KFLL, and get in the pattern with everything from DC3's to Lear jets, and all kinds of GA planes. Several times I would be 12 miles out over the Atlantic, waiting for the tower to to OK me turning base for the final to 27L.  At that point I couldn't even see the shoreline.... Pretty interesting in a C-152.   

It's been said so many times, but, LM's core business is not the person that loads P3D with all kinds of add ons to the point where it stalls, it is producing a reliable training aid. LM probably doesn't give a rat's backside whether or not they get a 64 bit version right away. Maybe a year or two down the road, maybe. Not going to be this year that's for sure... 

 

At one point i would have agreed with you, but now i am not so sure.  They have been heavily publishing details of people who develop and support for P3D, the likes of ORBX and Captain Sim.  If there core business isn't interested in that then why proudly publish the names of these people, why bother supporting add-ons at all?  If they can do without the simulation community why let us buy it?

 

The second part of your statement makes no sense.  Not publishing a 64-bit exe now only pushes it down the road, the 3rd party add-ons will still exist they will still need to convert.  In general business customers are far more reluctant to take chances, so why not give this community the 64-bit exe for testing?  Then roll it out to the more conservative business side?

Well with the above information i think that we can finally say goodbye to the thought of 64-bit P3D in the next iteration.

 

I don't understand the argument about 3rd parties, they will have to take the plunge at some point, what are they waiting for?  What changes in the next couple of years with the 3rd parties?

Wouldn't it make more sense to offer 2 exe files, an experimental 64-bit one and a compatible 32-bit one, that way the 3rd parties would be encouraged to start development, as it stands the 3rd parties will just sit churning out 32-bit add-ons increasing the pain when the time finally comes.

 

If the 32Bit Version is out with excellent VAS management (as stated in Rob's "hypothetical" statements) then we should not have any worry at all.  Infact the latest Beta of FSX-SE has insane VAS management (I am able to do PMDG 737 + Full FTX+ AI + 3 Layer ASN + Steve DX10 Fixer etc with zero crashes).  The P3Dv3 sounds even better.

 

Other issue is the SDKv2 - and v3.  The 64 Bit SDK guidance needs to be out first so the dev who make those high end training addons for flight schools and LM biz clients can start to develop.  If 64 Bit comes out now, it causes huge burden on developers to create new stuff immediately as that will probably hit their bottom line immediately. 

 

P3D2.5 Did create the file structure framework first.  That probably is the first step.  Then comes the version with improved VAS management, and that alone comes with new SDK and that will lead into 64Bit.

 

Again these are my assumptions.

 

Rob what you do you think of my assumptions?  Does it compare well with the v3 that you are "supposedly" testing     

 

64Bit will be completely different sim - we all know that when that comes.

 

Let all enjoy the choices we all have at the moment. 

At one point i would have agreed with you, but now i am not so sure.  They have been heavily publishing details of people who develop and support for P3D, the likes of ORBX and Captain Sim.  If there core business isn't interested in that then why proudly publish the names of these people, why bother supporting add-ons at all?  If they can do without the simulation community why let us buy it?

 

I'd agree with this. The number of P3D developers that are proudly displayed on the mainpage and throughout P3D's website has clearly turned into a selling point-- not a mere coincidence.

Remember that LM's commercial customer base comes in all sizes. We mainly think of the military and major airlines and corporations but don't forget the numerous flight schools that use/will use P3D in a dedicated platform for pilot training. Some of the "eye candy" could be quite helpful. A while back I was asked to evaluate the Redbird Jay simulator which used P3D. One of the scenarios was the visual approach to Oshkosh which required following rr tracks and other landmarks. IIRC they were using P3D 1.4 and, IMHO, it sorely lacked in the visual fix department. For what it was, it did quite well.

 

So, in many ways, I believe *we* simmers are closer to LM's market than we might think overall.

 

Vic

Remember that LM's commercial customer base comes in all sizes. We mainly think of the military and major airlines and corporations but don't forget the numerous flight schools that use/will use P3D in a dedicated platform for pilot training. Some of the "eye candy" could be quite helpful. A while back I was asked to evaluate the Redbird Jay simulator which used P3D. One of the scenarios was the visual approach to Oshkosh which required following rr tracks and other landmarks. IIRC they were using P3D 1.4 and, IMHO, it sorely lacked in the visual fix department. For what it was, it did quite well.

 

So, in many ways, I believe *we* simmers are closer to LM's market than we might think overall.

 

Vic

 

Good point, hand;t thought about that. 

I got my PPL for about $4500. That was 40hr of flight and about 40hr of instruction. I went though the whole process and got my CPL with single/multi engine and IFR ratings. Spent about 40k. Now I'm working on my aeronautics degree in the AF where I hope to fly one day.

That's pretty good.

 

When I started flying back in 1988 in Apple Valley, Ca (KAPV), the FBO I rented from gave me a C152 for $30 an hour and I paid $15 an hour for the instructor. At the time it seemed so expensive, but now 152's or similar easily go for $100 an hour and up and instructors are around $30. If only I could rent a 152 for $30 an hour these days. I'd probably be getting 2 hours a week at least for that price.

That's pretty good.

 

When I started flying back in 1988 in Apple Valley, Ca (KAPV), the FBO I rented from gave me a C152 for $30 an hour and I paid $15 an hour for the instructor. At the time it seemed so expensive, but now 152's or similar easily go for $100 an hour and up and instructors are around $30. If only I could rent a 152 for $30 an hour these days. I'd probably be getting 2 hours a week at least for that price.

 

The Instructor that ran the FBO that I flew out of in Hollywood Florida, told me that in order to make some kind of profit the rental rate for an aircraft had to be 0,1% of the selling price per hour. And that is about what he charged then. Skip to today where a new 172 costs over $200,000  that means that an FBO has to charge $200 an hour just for the aircraft, in order to turn a small profit. 

Cool, very cool. Just hope it will be in 64bit, than I have to buy a new powerful DYI PC.

directx 12 would bea good surprise with windows 10 being released

The Instructor that ran the FBO that I flew out of in Hollywood Florida, told me that in order to make some kind of profit the rental rate for an aircraft had to be 0,1% of the selling price per hour. And that is about what he charged then. Skip to today where a new 172 costs over $200,000 that means that an FBO has to charge $200 an hour just for the aircraft, in order to turn a small profit.

Was that North Perry Airport or KFLL? I don't know any other airports in the Hollywood area, although North Perry is really Pembroke Pines. Always wonder what the story is of the 727 at North Perry that I see parked there when I drive by.

Was that North Perry Airport or KFLL? I don't know any other airports in the Hollywood area, although North Perry is really Pembroke Pines. Always wonder what the story is of the 727 at North Perry that I see parked there when I drive by.

 

Yes North Perry is where I took my checkride. The FBO I started with was located in KFLL when I began my training and after I got my license he  moved to North Perry.There was no 727 there when I flew out of there. Those 4 runways are only 3,200 feet , must have had a fun time getting it in there.  

Wouldn't it make more sense to offer 2 exe files, an experimental 64-bit one and a compatible 32-bit one, that way the 3rd parties would be encouraged to start development, as it stands the 3rd parties will just sit churning out 32-bit add-ons increasing the pain when the time finally comes.

It makes far more sense from a programming perspective to optimize the 32bit base code as much as possible before even starting the 64bit conversion process...

 

...give that the 64bit version could potentially mask the remaining un-optimized portions of the code base.

+1

Spirit