Who am I gonna believe?

 

Some of you, or my lyin' eyes?

 

Looks great to me!

Looks like it's based off FSX technology, as they promised. It doesn't have all the eye-candy of P3D, but who expected it would? P3D has a 5 year head start on all of that.

 

For $15, you get a 64-bit sim, a flight school experience, and FTX Global. I can't really complain about that. I see the comments on the video that it doesn't look as good as FSX or P3D, but in all honestly, stock FSX and P3D look a bit dated, and frankly, bad.

 

Right, but Flight School won't be released into a vacuum. The potential audience on Steam won't necessarily know what FSX looks like. They're used to seeing amazing scenery and great-looking clouds and atmospheric effects in games like Witcher 3 and the Far Cry series. Heck, even the dated engine behind Fallout 4 manages to show stunning cloud and weather effects. Combat sims like IL-2 Battle of Stalingrad/Moscow are also looking very nice. 

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think newcomers to flying will be looking just as hard at the visual quality as anything else. That's just how gamers operate. They're not approaching it from the other side like most of us are, with a deep interest in aviation that lets us ignore less than ideal rendering of the environment.

Right, but Flight School won't be released into a vacuum. The potential audience on Steam won't necessarily know what FSX looks like. They're used to seeing amazing scenery and great-looking clouds and atmospheric effects in games like Witcher 3 and the Far Cry series. Heck, even the dated engine behind Fallout 4 manages to show stunning cloud and weather effects. Combat sims like IL-2 Battle of Stalingrad/Moscow are also looking very nice. 

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think newcomers to flying will be looking just as hard at the visual quality as anything else. That's just how gamers operate. They're not approaching it from the other side like most of us are, with a deep interest in aviation that lets us ignore less than ideal rendering of the environment.

 

I agree with everything you said. I do wonder how the average Steam user would react.

The clouds on the other games are just ok. The sky isn´t primordial/essential to them. I guess we have better clouds on the actual sims compared to the other games.

 

Regarding the effects, I absolutely agree, gamers will expect a lot more of the simulator. 

Right, but Flight School won't be released into a vacuum. The potential audience on Steam won't necessarily know what FSX looks like. They're used to seeing amazing scenery and great-looking clouds and atmospheric effects in games like Witcher 3 and the Far Cry series. Heck, even the dated engine behind Fallout 4 manages to show stunning cloud and weather effects. Combat sims like IL-2 Battle of Stalingrad/Moscow are also looking very nice. 

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think newcomers to flying will be looking just as hard at the visual quality as anything else. That's just how gamers operate. They're not approaching it from the other side like most of us are, with a deep interest in aviation that lets us ignore less than ideal rendering of the environment.

 

 

I agree with everything you said. I do wonder how the average Steam user would react.

 

I understand where you guys are coming from, but I tend to disagree if one considers these points.

• FSX Steam Edition is the most successful Flight Simulator ever on Steam. More sales in a few months than X-Plane and DCS had in a few years. 
• FSX Steam, as of me writing this, has 3,000 active online users playing right now. DCS World has 241 and X-Plane has 223
• FSX Steam has 5,000 reviews with a 79% positive rating. DCS has 2,422 reviews with a 81% rating and X-Plane has 689 reviews with a 67% rating

So lets take a step back and think about those numbers and what they mean to the assumption (which is a practical one) that players on Steam care mostly about modern engines and graphics.

 

The first thing I would think to consider is that FSX Steam is the oldest and most outdated engine of the three. Also, it is not the cheapest with DCS being free. It also is the latest to come to market which has given it less time to sell and grow its user-ship. Lastly, there is a title named AeroflyFS which is the most gorgeous visual flight sim on the market, but has terrible reviews and sales numbers. 

 

Now I know many folks will say (well most of those sales are from existing simmers, not new ones) but I would say to you, that most of the existing simming crowd has moved to the P3D world and even when you look at the community screen shots on steam, they are riddled with default planes. People also may say "well FSX Steam is on sale constantly" but DCS World is FREE!

 

What does this tell us? That those who care about learning or beginning flight simulation, care more about a complete experience than a visually appealing one. Otherwise DCS and Aerofly would blow FSX Steam out of the water.

 

I think its important not to group Call of Duty players in with Flight Simmers as they are two very different groups of folks. Even Stephen Hood made a point of saying that he is not coming to the market to attract arcade users, but help kindle the flight simulation flame for those who wish to have it. 

All excellent points, Josh. I had just shamefully forgotten that FSX:SE is very popular on Steam, so there is a user base definitely out there.

I agree with everything you said. I do wonder how the average Steam user would react.

 

Assuming that an "average Steam user" actually exists, which I strongly doubt given the extremely wide and varied game offer on the Steam platform attracting all kinds of different user and gamer profiles, why would we care about how they would react?

 

Fact is, this is what civilian flight simulation can offer today, at least at entertainment level. If a new user has any interest in flight simulation, I can't see any reason why they should not be stepping on DTG Flight School and Flight Simulator, just as we did years ago with FSX boxed and still do today with FSX Steam and P3D. If they are looking for shooters, fighting, combat, adventure games with stunning graphics, the new DTG flight simulators are probably not the best choice. That simple.

 

@Josh

Very little to add to your points, as usual!

Good point about the FSX sales figures on Steam, I wasn't aware of that.

 

I still think there might be some selection bias there, for people already interested enough in flying to ignore the graphics. But maybe the threshold for graphics quality among people with just a mild interest in flying, isn't as high as I thought.

 

Not sure if there's fair comparisons going on there.

eg DCS graphics are excellent and although the sim is free, the DLC costs a mint. It's also vastly limited in where you can fly.

 

It would be easier to look at GTA 5 and compare an imaginary contender coming in with a GTA 3 clone, I just can't imagine something that is yesterdays tech being of much interest to new customers.

 

On another note, the latest 'in game' footage looks very similar to the screenshots Dovetail released a few weeks ago. The screenshots released last weekend look much better. The moving demo might be slightly older tech. I'm thinking Dovetail are still working on certain aspects of the rendering engine (hence the lack of shadows in the previous cockpit videos, yet we know they'll be in the release version of Flight School).

Do we know that? 

I asked about shadows and got a non-committed answer. 

Assuming that an "average Steam user" actually exists, which I strongly doubt given the extremely wide and varied game offer on the Steam platform attracting all kinds of different user and gamer profiles, why would we care about how they would react?

 

Fact is, this is what civilian flight simulation can offer today, at least at entertainment level. If a new user has any interest in flight simulation, I can't see any reason why they should not be stepping on DTG Flight School and Flight Simulator, just as we did years ago with FSX boxed and still do today with FSX Steam and P3D. If they are looking for shooters, fighting, combat, adventure games with stunning graphics, the new DTG flight simulators are probably not the best choice. That simple.

 

Oh yes, even better points. I wish I could formulate them as well as you all do.

Oh yes, even better points. I wish I could formulate them as well as you all do.

 

I wish I could create mesh as you do! :wink:

Strange.... I pretty much assumed the Steam FSX-SE sales numbers were due to all of us snapping up copies for $4.99

 

Heck, I bought a copy and don't even play it!  :wink:

FSX is a 10-year-old 32-bit application.

P3D is an overpriced (imho) 10-year-old 32-bit application with a few bandaids on it.

(I bought P3D v2 pro and I've seen the reviews of v3).

 

I'm delighted that someone is updating FSX without turning it into an expensive not-for-entertainment product.

I'm glad that Dovetail have given it a budget price which will hopefully avoid people expecting the earth when Flight School is released.

(It won't obviously, but it would be nice if it did).

 

Has v3 of P3D updated the flight model yet?

Is the ATC reworked?

Updating a sim like FSX takes time and money.

It does for LM and it does for Dovetail as well.

I'm glad that Dovetail have given it a budget price which will hopefully avoid people expecting the earth when Flight School is released.

(It won't obviously, but it would be nice if it did).

Not sure if you are referencing a full world simulation when you say "earth" , but even the basic DTG flight school does deliver this. The only thing limited in it will the the sdk and 3rd party addons