CLOSED: Take our survey and have your say in shaping the future of flight simulation (plus there are prizes to be won!)

[TBurd01]

I'm honestly kind of more excited to see what Aerofly can do. Flight School wasn't very impressive, and it seems like they are just trying to copy/paste FSX to 64 bit. Still filled out the survey in full, but I'm not expecting my feedback to be considered.

[WotanUK]

 

 

To be fair. Dovetail has not claimed that their new flight simulator will replace FSX.

 

Yes you are correct that is indeed what they said; but the whole Dovetail statement is an Oxymoron.  

 

Take the part "on making one which meets the needs and desires of simmers. Not one that that competes with any other sim." .  That is almost certainly going to compete with current flight sims, how can it not?  They could have left the part off about the "needs and desires of simmers" and you might have had a point.  I'd be thinking perhaps a civilian version of HAWX.

 

For me to purchase this sim it would have to offer something above and beyond X-Plane, P3D or DCS if it doesn't, i won't be buying.  So even if (somehow) Dovetail don't think it's in competition with other Flight Sims, from my standpoint it absolutely is and i suspect i am not the only one.

[torium]

Take the part "on making one which meets the needs and desires of simmers. Not one that that competes with any other sim." .  That is almost certainly going to compete with current flight sims, how can it not?

 

Yes - but HAWX and FSX is not direct competitors - though both are flightsimulators. I agree that Dovetail is vague and sometimes inaccurate in their statements. So where are you, DTG Martin?  :smile:

 

In the meantime I can speculate: Dovetail seems to have a clear goal - but still looking for the right path.

 

Dovetail:

"We have seen lots of comments saying that serious simmers want this and that, true simmers are interested in this, hardcore players want that feature. What is interesting is that a lot of these ideas and "wishlists" don't match up. Backwards compatibility is a good example. To some people this is extremely important. To others they don't want it. The more you focus on meeting the exact needs of anyone group of simmers the more narrow you make the scope of the final sim. For every one person that you include you end up excluding another."

 

How can you solve these conflicting desires?

 

Dovetail:

"We don't want to exclude anyone. We want to do just the opposite - we want to give anyone who would like to get into flight simming the ability to do so. You might find flying long distances in a helicopter fun while someone else might hate helicopters and prefer fighter jet. Therefore we are not looking to lock down the experience to any one person, group or "market". We don't view it as gamers vs simmers vs hardcore vs casual. Instead we see people who are interested in aviation and want to spend their time engaging with entertainment around it.

 

Entertainment and gaming can often be flash points for people. Again we don't see it that way. Whether you are watching a Hollywood action blockbuster, a small indie film or a documentary you are taking part in the same basic activity and using the same technology (a DVD, a TV, a DVD player). Your DVD player is simply a means of engaging and accessing the media. It is a tool with certain functions. It is how you use it that matters. 

 

This is our approach to DFS. We are not looking to create game or a sim or whatever you may call it that is focused around any one experience. Instead we want to create a platform that can be shaped, scaled and modified so that you can engage and access the experience you want."

 

How can I make this clear: Dovetail - "want to create a platform that can be shaped, scaled and modified."

 

But how?

"We will provide developers with all the tools, documentation and support they need to create great new content for this new platform and will be working closely with them during that process.

 

We are interested in seeing what people can do with a next generation flight sim. We want to see what can be, rather than just repeating the cycle of what is."

 

"seeing what people can do" - does not mean what Dovetail can do!

 

Dovetail has given us some input on how they think to solve this challenge. And they ask us: - "Take our survey and have your say in shaping the future of flight simulation."

 

Hope as many as possible take this opportunity.  :smile:

[TheFlightSimGuy]

So sad that a developer asked for feedback, and this is how they are greeted. I dont see why anyone would ever do this again if users cant just log into a computer and complete a simple task instead of making a big fuss about it here. I'm no computer genius and I was able to complete it in about 10 minutes. Not the most elegant survey, but far from difficult to complete. 

[JSilva]

I had a closer look at the survey website. On style of questions, there is only a "Drag and Drop ranking" for these kind of questions where you have to drag down and reorder what you prefer most. So, it is a limitation of the survey rather than a poor design choice by the person who made this survey.

[torium]

They won't call it a replacement because they want to keep FSX:SE alive but their description sounds like a sim that should be better than FSX and no matter what you call it, in the end that would be mean a replacement.

 

Yes, in the end - I hope. But let me continue my speculation above:

 

Let us assume that Dovetail really developing a new simulator PLATFORM based on: - they want to create a platform that can be shaped (by anyone), scaled (by anyone) and modified (by anyone) so that you can engage and access the experience you want." ("access the experience you want" = must mean a platform that is opened up for you and me).

 

Then i guess Dovetail will release their new DTG Flight Simulator PLATFORM based on an extended Flight School (64 bit).

 

Dovetail: "Flight School and Flight Simulator do share the same underlying technology. However, Flight Simulator is still in development and upon release will be a much bigger and more feature-rich experience than Flight School."

 

"access the experience you want"

 

As an example - let's say I wish to fly helicopters. How can I do that - as Dovetail does not have it included. Then the DTG FS platform must be open for external developers.

 

An inventive developer then create a helicopter based on his / her new ideas. This helicopter technology is new - so with FSX he must (like now) hack the simulator to get it to work. Unfortunately in this case it is not possible.

 

"We want to create a platform that can be shaped, scaled and modified" says Dovetail. 

 

Then the helicopter developer can ask Dovetail (which is impossible concerning FSX) if they can open up a "new door" ("core-plugin"?) - so that his/her new technology can access their new simulator PLATFORM.

 

Dovetail do what is needed - and will now have a stronger simulator PLATFORM (with new helicopter technology).

 

We, the customers will get a new exciting addon (DLC) - and can pay a small fee to Dovetale (for the new "core-plugin") included  when we buy this new helicopter-addon (DLC) from the external developer (through Steam?). This should be a win-win solution.

 

Imagine PMDG, RealAir, A2A, Orbx, etc. in the same situation as the above example. Then we can really get innovative development!!!

 

What is it Dovetails says:

"Something we have said time and time again is that we are committed to this for the long run. We are realists, by that I mean we know it will take years to build up this new platform and the infrastructure around it to match the current landscape of flight simulation. However, with the help of the flight sim community and developers alike that is exactly what we plan to do. It will all just take time and a lot of hard work." 

 

Therefore, it is totally unrealistic to believe that we at the end of the year get a successor to FSX or P3D. It's not the schedule. 

[marty2756]

 

 

So sad that a developer asked for feedback, and this is how they are greeted.

 

This 100%.

Really... a company that finally seems to (somehow) continue FSX legacy, at least tries to hear sim community... and then some replies in this thread... wow.

 

I think first DTG Flight sim late this year will never be near community expectations.. simply because of the little time they had to "catch up".

But, if they are headed as they say, keeping it a simulator, I will just buy it to support... as I did with FSc.

[torium]

 

 

I think first DTG Flight sim late this year will never be near community expectations.. simply because of the little time they had to "catch up".

Agree, but not because of the little time. But because of another concept.

[SamYeager]

Thank god I didn't need to select and rank all the options! It seems clear that nobody thought about the problems of ranking so many options within the confines of most people's monitor size.

[Guest]

So sad that a developer asked for feedback, and this is how they are greeted. I dont see why anyone would ever do this again if users cant just log into a computer and complete a simple task instead of making a big fuss about it here. I'm no computer genius and I was able to complete it in about 10 minutes. Not the most elegant survey, but far from difficult to complete.

 

I think you don't realize that the fact that you were able to complete the survey as a simple task in 10 minutes was thanks to a few small but important changes that were made after the first few posts in this topic... You are very welcome.

 

Asking for feedback is great (in the end I DID manage to complete the survey as I intended to do from the start: I didn't just say that asking for feedback sucks) but I don't think there is ANYTHING wrong in making the creator of a survey aware of a few bad choices that simply have a negative effect on a useful result. If something is wrong I think it's logical to point that out. Even when you are a bit ###### at that moment.

[arsenal82]

Yes, in the end - I hope. But let me continue my speculation above:

 

Let us assume that Dovetail really developing a new simulator PLATFORM based on: - they want to create a platform that can be shaped (by anyone), scaled (by anyone) and modified (by anyone) so that you can engage and access the experience you want." ("access the experience you want" = must mean a platform that is opened up for you and me).

 

Then i guess Dovetail will release their new DTG Flight Simulator PLATFORM based on an extended Flight School (64 bit).

 

Dovetail: "Flight School and Flight Simulator do share the same underlying technology. However, Flight Simulator is still in development and upon release will be a much bigger and more feature-rich experience than Flight School."

 

"access the experience you want"

 

As an example - let's say I wish to fly helicopters. How can I do that - as Dovetail does not have it included. Then the DTG FS platform must be open for external developers.

 

An inventive developer then create a helicopter based on his / her new ideas. This helicopter technology is new - so with FSX he must (like now) hack the simulator to get it to work. Unfortunately in this case it is not possible.

 

"We want to create a platform that can be shaped, scaled and modified" says Dovetail.

 

Then the helicopter developer can ask Dovetail (which is impossible concerning FSX) if they can open up a "new door" ("core-plugin"?) - so that his/her new technology can access their new simulator PLATFORM.

 

Dovetail do what is needed - and will now have a stronger simulator PLATFORM (with new helicopter technology).

 

We, the customers will get a new exciting addon (DLC) - and can pay a small fee to Dovetale (for the new "core-plugin") included when we buy this new helicopter-addon (DLC) from the external developer (through Steam?). This should be a win-win solution.

 

Imagine PMDG, RealAir, A2A, Orbx, etc. in the same situation as the above example. Then we can really get innovative development!!!

 

What is it Dovetails says:

"Something we have said time and time again is that we are committed to this for the long run. We are realists, by that I mean we know it will take years to build up this new platform and the infrastructure around it to match the current landscape of flight simulation. However, with the help of the flight sim community and developers alike that is exactly what we plan to do. It will all just take time and a lot of hard work."

 

Therefore, it is totally unrealistic to believe that we at the end of the year get a successor to FSX or P3D. It's not the schedule.

Some very good points on this post. Points that matter

In my opinion one of the biggest question mark that will make or brake dtgfs will be the Eula condition developers have to follow

In past release dtg games eula request that freeware devs do not hold copyrights of theyr works. Second dtg. Exclusively hold commercial rights to any commercial use of contents created for theyr games unless dev ls in agreement with dtg

 

Dick have alredy touch this point in previous post, dev need to know theyr hard work belong to them and not to dtg and as such dev need to be free from this kind of restrictions and use theyr hard work spent hours as they pleased either to produce freeware or payware in return dtgfs platform will grow

Im absolutely sure that all dev on this forum agree to this point

It is very very very esy to understand what made fsx grow do not need millions of question.

[TheFlightSimGuy]

I think you don't realize that the fact that you were able to complete the survey as a simple task in 10 minutes was thanks to a few small but important changes that were made after the first few posts in this topic... You are very welcome.

 

 

I completed the survey within hours of it coming out and when there was 1 reply in this thread. So you are incorrect. 

[Christopher Low]

So you trawled through all of those "drag and drop" questions, and arranged them in order of importance? I couldn't be bothered, considering that 90% of them were irrelevant to me. I just dragged the handful of ones that mattered to me across to the "answer" section, completed the survey, and then realised that I had to drag them all across to be able to "upload" it to DTG Central Command. At that point, I put on my Duncan Bannatyne hat, and uttered the immortal words......."I'm out".

[SpiritFlyer]

So sad that a developer asked for feedback, and this is how they are greeted. I dont see why anyone would ever do this again if users cant just log into a computer and complete a simple task instead of making a big fuss about it here. I'm no computer genius and I was able to complete it in about 10 minutes. Not the most elegant survey, but far from difficult to complete. 

 

I'd usually rather switch than fight but this is ridiculous.

 

Nonsense.

 

The survey was asinine and took a lot longer than that to even possibly consider the questions let alone arrange the answers!

 

That is the long and the short of it.

 

Hope and expect much better things from Dovetail in the future!

 

Kind regards,

[Greggy_D]

Why am I required to drag and drop responses which have absolutely no bearing on my interests or thoughts?  I should not be required to rank choices that I do not give a *^&$ about.