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UPS Orders 14 747-8 Freighters

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I recently did the Boeing factory tour (just over a week ago during my US holiday) and saw a 747-8i being constructed (PTS - put together slowly) before my own eyes. I was also surprised to see a 767 being built, as I thought Boeing had stopped building those. Very interesting tour, very interesting indeed.

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Excellent news indeed! But I seriously doubt this order will be profitable for Boeing.

 

In order to sell these huge freighters in the currently awful air cargo market requires significant incentives towards customers (= discounts) to acquire new freighters, on top of the industry standard discounts for large orders.

 

Boeing's main objective right now is to bridge the gap until they can build the new 747-8 based 'Air Force One' airframes and fulfill these contracts. In order to do so, the production line must be kept open until then. It is already at its slowest possible rate without ridiculous costs (0,5 aircraft per month), so Boeing must do whatever it can to sell the remaining production slots to keep the line open long enough to produce the Air Force One airframes.

 

This probably means selling the aircraft at a loss. Also, do not be surprised of the 747 is taken out of production quickly after the new Air Force One airframes have been built (unless there is soon significant growth in the cargo market). :smile:

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I recently did the Boeing factory tour (just over a week ago during my US holiday) and saw a 747-8i being constructed (PTS - put together slowly) before my own eyes. I was also surprised to see a 767 being built, as I thought Boeing had stopped building those. Very interesting tour, very interesting indeed.

 

The 767 is still a very much in production; remember, Boeing just signed a contract with the USAF to upgrade their aging KC135/10 fleet.  The replacement aircraft has been designated as the KC-46a Pegasus, which is nothing more than a modified 767. Additionally, Boeing still has 96 outstanding orders to UPS, FEDEX and other carriers; in total they still have to fabricate and deliver 275 aircraft to domestic customers. You can bet other NATO members will be placing large orders for the KC-46a too; To that point, the 767 will continue to grace our skies for at least the next 50-years.  In short, the talk of its demise have been greatly exaggerated ;).  

 

 

http://www.boeing.com/defense/kc-46a-pegasus-tanker/ 

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The 767 is still a very much in production; remember, Boeing just signed a contract with the USAF to upgrade their aging KC135/10 fleet.  The replacement aircraft has been designated as the KC-46a Pegasus, which is nothing more than a modified 767. Additionally, Boeing still has 96 outstanding orders to UPS, FEDEX and other carriers; in total they still have to fabricate and deliver 275 aircraft to domestic customers. You can bet other NATO members will be placing large orders for the KC-46a too; To that point, the 767 will continue to grace our skies for at least the next 50-years.  In short, the talk of its demise have been greatly exaggerated ;).  

 

 

http://www.boeing.com/defense/kc-46a-pegasus-tanker/ 

 

Didn't get to see the 767 tanker assembly. Could see the tail of the aircraft, but that's all. The guide explained that all military work is carried out away from public eyes and even staff working on them need to have special military clearances, which is understandable. But the sheer size of the building - it's colossal. It's the biggest building in the world, and it just had an extension. The guide said that Boeing is waiting on Guiness World Records to come back to certify the extension.

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Boeing's main objective right now is to bridge the gap until they can build the new 747-8 based 'Air Force One' airframes and fulfill these contracts. In order to do so, the production line must be kept open until then. It is already at its slowest possible rate without ridiculous costs (0,5 aircraft per month), so Boeing must do whatever it can to sell the remaining production slots to keep the line open long enough to produce the Air Force One airframes.

 

They have no need to stretch it out.  The airframes for the AF1 contract have already been built per several sources, the problem is the modifications needed and funding them.  Boeing could deliver the aircraft in about 24 months from being given the "go" by the Pentagon and a wire transfer.

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I recently did the Boeing factory tour (just over a week ago during my US holiday) and saw a 747-8i being constructed (PTS - put together slowly) before my own eyes. I was also surprised to see a 767 being built, as I thought Boeing had stopped building those. Very interesting tour, very interesting indeed.

FedEx has 767's in the backlog. Also the KC46 is basically a 767 with mods. Anyway, that would have been pretty cool to see a 767 get put together.

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Excellent news indeed! But I seriously doubt this order will be profitable for Boeing.

 

In order to sell these huge freighters in the currently awful air cargo market requires significant incentives towards customers (= discounts) to acquire new freighters, on top of the industry standard discounts for large orders.

 

Boeing's main objective right now is to bridge the gap until they can build the new 747-8 based 'Air Force One' airframes and fulfill these contracts. In order to do so, the production line must be kept open until then. It is already at its slowest possible rate without ridiculous costs (0,5 aircraft per month), so Boeing must do whatever it can to sell the remaining production slots to keep the line open long enough to produce the Air Force One airframes.

 

This probably means selling the aircraft at a loss. Also, do not be surprised of the 747 is taken out of production quickly after the new Air Force One airframes have been built (unless there is soon significant growth in the cargo market). :smile:

I don't think Boeing sells planes at a loss!!  Their revenues are $96 billion this year versus $90.7 billion last year.  Gross profit $14.026 Billion, Net Profit $5.5.  Stock price at $140.  I am a shareholder of Boeing and they have solid financials.

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I recently did the Boeing factory tour (just over a week ago during my US holiday) and saw a 747-8i being constructed (PTS - put together slowly) before my own eyes. I was also surprised to see a 767 being built, as I thought Boeing had stopped building those. Very interesting tour, very interesting indeed.

Fedex is still taking deliveries of new 767s. Even cooler is that they're fitted with glass cockpits! https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Boeing_767-300F_Glass_Cockpit.jpg

 

Anyway, don't wanna blow this off topic so...I hope there is a PMDG UPS repaint upon the -8F release.

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Anyway, don't wanna blow this off topic so...I hope there is a PMDG UPS repaint upon the -8F release.

Oh, i fully plan on moving my UPS 777 textures to the 747 when she's released.  :wink:   (its one of my favorites)

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Excellent thread as I didnt know the 767 was still alive.

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It is somewhat interesting that the main justification to retire the existing Presidential 747s was because it was an older model and replacement parts were becoming difficult to come by.

 

The thinking here?  Hey lets order two more, the very last two to roll off the 747 assembly line.

 

Seems like they might have decided instead to go with the 777 instead since it will have a much longer shelf life.

 

Anyone following the crazy history of getting the military refueler version of the 767 now being built will know that it will have the functionality of the 1950s KC-135 but cost orders of magnitude more due to arbitrary military requirements.  The decision makers in the U.S. Air Force have lost any speck of common sense.

 

Mark Trainer

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The thinking here?  Hey lets order two more, the very last two to roll off the 747 assembly line.
 
Seems like they might have decided instead to go with the 777 instead since it will have a much longer shelf life.

 

I think the US was also looking at the 787 as a possible replacement for AF1.

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The decision makers in the U.S. Air Force have lost any speck of common sense.

 

Being retired USAF, I cannot argue with that; however, the decision to go with the four-holer is probably based on some very sound decisions since the mission profile includes much more electrical power than you want to place on only two engine alternators.  Almost two decades ago, the E-4B had four 400KVA alternators, and as all things do the growth in requirements has been sure and steady I bet.

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Seems like they might have decided instead to go with the 777 instead since it will have a much longer shelf life.

 

 

I think the US was also looking at the 787 as a possible replacement for AF1.

 

 

not possible, main reason i've read is the power needed for all the special electronics requires the additional generators.  or at least can't operate on just one, should an engine go out.  not exactly like they can just accept load shedding cabin lights etc like in a normal jet

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I could be wrong, but only the -400's (freighters / combos etc) will be released first? Then the -8 and -8i versions?

 

Could be a long wait if that's the case. Good news that some airline like UPS ordering the 747-8 so we will have something still current. :)

Not really a problem, as I'll be painting both the 400F and -8F (if I get the -8, may depend on budget considerations, but I'd give my -400 masters to a fellow painter who would have the -8 to transition if that was the case.) 

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I could be wrong, but only the -400's (freighters / combos etc) will be released first? Then the -8 and -8i versions?

 

That's correct.

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Anyone following the crazy history of getting the military refueler version of the 767 now being built will know that it will have the functionality of the 1950s KC-135 but cost orders of magnitude more due to arbitrary military requirements. The decision makers in the U.S. Air Force have lost any speck of common sense.

 

I heard it said once that if the DoD made a car, it would have a capacity of 1, would get 2 miles per gallon, and would cost $850,000.

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I heard it said once that if the DoD made a car, it would have a capacity of 1, would get 2 miles per gallon, and would cost $850,000.

Partly because they can only buy a relative few, a number not nearly large enough to recognize the benefits of modern production techniques.  If Toyota could only build 200 Camrys, they'd probably be about that cost too. That cost also includes initial spares and training...., I'm not defending DoD procurement but the only fix is understanding the problems, which few take the time to do.

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