J van E

Aerofly FS 2: opinions changed already?

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First of all: I post this in Hangar Chat on purpose because the people I am mainly addressing probably don't visit the Aerofly FS 2 subforum and I would only get responses from people who already know all this and like Aerofly FS 2. :happy: 

A few months ago quite a few people were still dismissing Aerofly FS 2 because it wasn't really a sim and whenever more details would be added (scenery, systems) the stellar performance would surely to drop big time and become just like FSX/P3D/XP11.

In the meantime Orbx released Innsbruck and Meigs for AFS2. Specially Innsbruck offers an immense amount of detail. Turns out it doesn't hurt performance noticeably. Yes, of course you won't get the 600 fps you can get above empty Utah but above Innsbruck fps easily remains above 100.

Last week a major update has been released and it includes a Dash8 400, which, I would say, is payware quality. But then totally free. :happy: The update mainly brings a lot more system depth to the sim. My favorite airliner (also in FSX/P3D), the Airbus 320, was an odd toy up to now but after the update this default aircraft is getting close to payware quality. I say 'close' because obviously (this IS a default plane) there still are things missing (MCDU, the overhead only has the lights working, no cold and dark, etc.) but the autopilot system works like a charm and the plane can be flown as in real life now. Maybe even better (in certain phases of flight) than for instance the Aerosoft one (imho). Anyway, turns out all these extra's still don't hurt performance...!

I was wondering if some of you are getting more interested in Aerofly FS 2 lately. Things are looking good: great updates, addons that don't hurt performance, more things coming our way (IPACS is working hard on ATC right now). Any die hard FSX/P3D/XP users here that notice all the bad predictions don't seem to come true? I also post this because some of you may not even know about the new AFS2 developments. :happy: If these developments do nothing for you: what would you need before you would get really interested?

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Jeroen,

 

To be honest, I've been interested in Aerofly FS 2 since it was launched. And I still am. Right now P3dv4 is my weapon of choice. I had previously been using v3. I waited until all my main addons were updated v4 and then I moved over. And it's not having any of these addons in AF FS 2 that is stopping me from making the switch. Things like EZdok, Active Sky, PMDG, ProATC-X have become pretty much a necessity to me, and I would struggle without them. Also, the obvious lack of having the entire planet covered is a huge negative. Don't get me wrong, I haven't completely dismissed the sim, but I do think it's gonna be some time before I make the switch. Having said that, I've seen a lot of positives. The scenery that's available is probably the prettiest I've seen in any flight sim. The frame rates people are getting make me drool at the mouth.

 

But for now, I'll stay put. However, I will keep monitoring the Aerofly forum, and keep an eye on the latest news and updates.

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Jeroen...first my sincere appreciation for you keeping us up to date on FS 2, as I have developed strong interest and plan to buy in Sept. due primarily to following your updates.  I have been out of simming for about 5 years due to family and career, but will be in a position to be back in the game in about 6 weeks.

Given I love flying in the western US I frankly can't wait to do Vegas to SFO etc. w/o tweaking, a lot of addons, etc.  A bonus is that I love to do the old school analog style vs. programming fmc, so esp looking forward to the Lear 45.  Couldn't find any screens of that cockpit on the site, so if you have any experience with the 45 and care to comment on it would be interested.

Also curious if the flight dynamics are up to your standards with their current aircraft, esp the Lear or new Dash 8.  Thanks a lot for keeping us informed and breathing new life into my sim enthusiasm at just the right time.

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I like it for VR, thats about it. Its just a much better version of Flight for me. Regional, limited, but nice to look at. I enjoy it. 

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The latest update has brought additional ( and well implemented ) functionality for the Airbus A320 and the Awesome Q-400, which is really nicely implemented, and brings a "proof of concept" that, IMO, emphasizes one of the strong points about AEFS2 - the flight and systems modelling capabilities.

The Q-400 3-stage turboprop engines have been implemented that way - no table-based lookup, but true thermodynamic simulation of a 3-stage turboprop engine !  This is UNIQUE among all flight simulations of turboprops available ( exclusion made to ELITE's B200 Kingair, with a similarly detailed turboprop model..., and the engine modelling in DCS World, including the turbines ... )

Having this modelled in the Q-400 also allowed me to give a try to the way AEFS2 models asymmetric thrust situations, by assigning separate controls to each "condition lever" and this way being able to "kill" an engine under different flight scenarios, and deal with the emergency... AEFS2's Q-400 proved to react to such a situation very plausibly !!!

AEFS2 is moving, not many stuff added but big stuff consistently added along the development cycle. It is more than worth supporting and, believing in a bright future for this simulator.

 

 

 

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i've purchased Aerofly FS2 to support it, but in my opinion it's not there yet. Keep in mind there is still no autogen(last time i checked), and not realy complex airliner. Without autogen, with default planes, i can easily get 100+ fps in FSX / P3D. Other then that, i like it

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15 minutes ago, lodestar said:

i've purchased Aerofly FS2 to support it, but in my opinion it's not there yet. Keep in mind there is still no autogen(last time i checked), and not realy complex airliner. Without autogen, with default planes, i can easily get 100+ fps in FSX / P3D. Other then that, i like it

Orbx/Aerofly FS 2 Innsbruck with lots of Autogen, 4K, 140+FPS and max settings. :ha:

NfmLRu.jpg

 

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My first exposure to Aerofly2 was at FlightSimCon, the ORBX booth flying their setup with Oculus Rift @ Innsbruk. I was blown away. When I got home I bought Aerofly2. It's not perfect by any means, it's in its infancy, but when I like to do something different from P3d I go to Aerofly2. i think this will evolve into something pretty good. It is worth supporting. I'm happy with my purchase.

Dave

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Unfortunately, I can't get interested in anything which isn't a global sim.  Geographically limited sims don't do it for me.   Although I admire the leaps that AF2 has made, it won't see my investment of money/time.  There isn't enough of either.  P3Dv4 is expensive enough on both counts - and just too much fun to give up.

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I usually do two types of flights. One are occasional after work flights just for relaxation. Fly around and enjoy scenery. For that Aerofly2 looks quite suitable.

The other flights are more serious Airliner Simulation using Addons with a lot of system depth like the FSLabs 320, allowing you fly close to real world procedures.  Or PMDG with FS2Crew crew coordination.

If you consider the long development times for this Addons, Aerofly2 can`t be even close to that. And probably no one expects it to be. P3D (or XPlane with the upcoming FlightFactor A320) took quite some time to get there.

So to change to it. No, not anytime soon. 

But I bought it already, just for supporting it. The development and the future of Aerofly2 certainly looks exciting. 

Mike

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2 hours ago, J van E said:

A few months ago quite a few people were still dismissing Aerofly FS 2 because it wasn't really a sim and whenever more details would be added (scenery, systems) the stellar performance would surely to drop big time and become just like FSX/P3D/XP11.

Any die hard FSX/P3D/XP users here that notice all the bad predictions don't seem to come true?

I never dismissed AFS2 performance, and always thought that it's the most efficient flight sim in terms of performance.

That being said, there are some considerations that could be done if we compare it to e.g. X-Plane (the product that I know best). AFS2 lacks some features like water noise (waves), water reflections, atmospheric scattering (this is very noticeable at high altitude, where X-Plane looks more realistic), a global lighting engine (AFS2 does not even have landing lights).

All of these features have each a certain performance impact, some more, some less. Even the weather in AFS2 is simplified (if I'm not mistaken, I think I've read that they had to use simplified weather visuals in order not to drag down performance too much).

Add to this the fact that the main focus of XP developers (again, the product I know best, so the one I can compare it to) for the near future is to switch to Vulkan and improve performance to make it VR ready.

So, in conclusion, I think that AFS2 is still the most performing engine, but I don't think the actual gap, in a feature-by-feature comparison, is gonna remain so wide, for the reasons I stated above.

 

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Interesting comments! I agree that AFS2 isn't yet a full blown sim as for instance P3D or XP can be (with all kinds of addons). When it comes to default sims it's another story, I think, but I doubt if many simmers use default FSX/P3D/XP (if you do Aerofly FS 2 instantly becomes a lot more interesting ;) ). But yes, if you for instance want the entire globe Aerofly FS 2 isn't for you and probably won't be anytime soon. It all depends on how you use the sim. I myself have become a more casual flyer over time and for that AFS2 really rocks (specially in VR). I do however like the new autopilot in the Airbus and how it transforms it into a more serious plane that comes really close (or surpasses) to how I used the Aerosoft Airbus in the past: the things that are lacking right now I don't miss but I can understand it very well if people think otherwise. At least are going in the right direction imho!

I myself am very happy to see that addons like Innsbruck and more complex planes like the Dash don't hurt performance (considerably). I did expect a larger hit in performance, I have to say. 

As it is now I do think that a lot of people who don't own Aerofly FS 2 yet would enjoy it for the more relaxed short flights: specially in VR this sim is perfect for that. It's also clear that a lot (maybe most) simmers won't switch to Aerofly FS 2 completely. Very understandable. I made that switch but also, as I said, because my way of flying has changed. I am happy to see the progress though and to see the sim becoming more and more a real sim.

47 minutes ago, Murmur said:

Even the weather in AFS2 is simplified (if I'm not mistaken, I think I've read that they had to use simplified weather visuals in order not to drag down performance too much).

No, that wasn't the reason. The current clouds and 'weather' are a placeholder for something better but that will probably take a while. The current crappy clouds in fact hurt performance: they mainly added them because there had to be some kind of weather. The clouds also aren't their own either, if I understood it well, so they can't really work on them: the sim needs an entirely new weather system. I myself would prefer if IPACS gave this priority over ATC but apparenly most users want to see ATC first.

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4 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

Orbx/Aerofly FS 2 Innsbruck with lots of Autogen, 4K, 140+FPS and max settings. :ha:

i would embrace this with any of PMDG/FSL/MJQ Airliners

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I bought it to support the effort but at this point it's a nice diversion. I have no intention, at this time, to dump $$$ into addons, especially for a "local" sim. I see a great deal of potential but it has a far way to go to get even close to P3DV4, even if V4 stayed static for a while.

I wouldn't delete it from my system but I really don't spend too much time with it - limited as it is, it get quite boring. 

It will be interesting to see how the BASE sim develops - if it MUST HAVE all the addons to be decent - that is not good.

Vic

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Hi folks:

I bought Aerofly FS 2 back in April to install on my laptop, and I have to say that even if it is in in early stages, is very promissing and it's delivering in my opinion the best sim graphics and aircraft physics available, even compared to P3D. It complements very well my flights in P3Dv3/v4. I've been able to create my own photorealistic scenery and locations of several airports in my region, in a very easy way, following the excellent tutorials developed by the IPACS support staff. The fact that ORBX is developing sceneries for AFS2 is another high positive (LOWI and KCGX released already).

For now it's my second sim option, while it's being further developed. Very happy with it.

Cheers, Ed

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I keep supporting AF2 with my wallet (as I have XP11 and P3D and DCS and FSW), have all their add-ons including Orbx.  It's still missing many features that WILL impact performance:

1.  no real weather engine with fog, cloud layers, winds (especially wind aloft which is critical to tube liners), visibility, etc.
2.  no AI traffic
3.  no road traffic
4.  no boat traffic
5.  no seasons
6.  no ground handling
7.  PR scenery has fixed shadows (especially mountains, but this is a common problem for PR based scenery).

As they've added more, AF2 performance has dropped over time and I suspect it will continue to drop as there is no magic when it comes to rendering pixels in virtual 3D space in a 2D coordinate system.

But I keep supporting them and will continue to do so, I've posted a few videos on AF2.  IMHO, there needs to be MUCH more "interactivity" and additional "purpose" in future flight sims as just the act of "flight" itself has a limited audience.  AirHauler 2, FS Captain, GSX, and more bring additional purpose and there currently is no reason why that can't be expanded even more now that many are in the land of 64bit with no fear of OOMs.  For many, flight is all they desire, but if the community wants to grow and expand, we need to capture a wider audience where flight is just "part" of simulation and shifts to being a Global simulator.

My 2 cents.

Cheers, Rob.

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The recent release of The free Dash 8 and the accompanying massive AP systems update, received relatively little notice or fanfare in most venues. Nonetheless, the changes to the sim and its increasing systems depth are significant, and to date, have shown little to no effect on framerates.

In fact, an initial drop in framerate brought on by changes to the shadow system was recovered by subsequent refinements, leaving the sim pretty much where it was as regards FPS at least for those of us with 1080's

Just as a heads up though, here are the changes J van E was speaking of, and why he wondered if these changes might cause some increased interest. https://www.aerofly.com/community/forum/index.php?thread/8540-features-of-the-autopilot-update/&postID=42797#post42797

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Right now it's just a fun diversion, as vgbaron suggests.

Getting better, though, and I expect to use it more and more as it develops.

I'd like to see a lot more scenery areas coming out as DLC. Would probably buy them all.

 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

The recent release of The free Dash 8 and the accompanying massive AP systems update, received relatively little notice or fanfare in most venues. Nonetheless, the changes to the sim and its increasing systems depth are significant, and to date, have shown little to no effect on framerates.

I agree, I haven't noticed any negative impact on FPS whatsoever.

Cheers, Ed

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I understand the 'nice and fun diversion' comments and even though the last update really made the sim more sim I can agree with this, but of course it all depends on what you like to do with a sim: I like to have 'nice and fun' flights at this moment in time (in VR) and so for me Aerofly FS 2 isn't a diversion: it is exactly what I like right now! :happy: The updated Airbus makes things even more 'fun'! It gives me enough of what I want and leaves out the things I don't care about too much (although I wouldn't mind if those things would be added in the future.) But I fully understand that for others it may be not more than a diversion. Or not even interesting enough for that! 

I didn't post all this expecting people to switch but I was curious if Aerofly FS 2 still is on the radar of people here and if they knew about the progress. I am happy to see a lot of you are at least following the sim and taking it seriously. More so than half a year ago, it seems to me. Which is a good thing.

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I bought it and installed it to try it out.  I wanted to support them in their development.  It was fun in VR for about 15 minutes.  The flight model of the Cessna was not good and down low the terrain looks bad.  I uninstalled it but I am going to keep an eye on it.  I hope they continue to develop it.

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11 minutes ago, J van E said:

But I fully understand that for others it may be not more than a diversion. Or not even interesting enough for that! 

You were in that camp yourself for a while!

I'm glad you looked deeper though, or we wouldn't have your tutorials! :gaul:

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20 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

You were in that camp yourself for a while!

I'm glad you looked deeper though, or we wouldn't have your tutorials! :gaul:

:biggrin:

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2 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

The recent release of The free Dash 8 and the accompanying massive AP systems update, received relatively little notice or fanfare in most venues.

Exactly!  not noticed ... That's why I believe they need to focus on those other items I listed before going into other areas of flight ... I'd fly a broomstick and enjoy it more than a complex aircraft IF those other elements I listed above were in place first.  I have my complex simulators and my complex aircraft ... it's a smaller audience that AF2 can "grow" into ... get the weather and interactive world happening first, that'll draw more "fanfare" than us systems-centric people that love to work with aircraft systems and do a ton of flight prep.

Don't get me wrong, I like aircraft complexity, but programming an Autopilot, doing the fuel calcs, DH, runway lengths, SIDs, STARs, Transition, Holding, etc. etc. is great, but once you hit the AP button, you'll have to bring about your imagination to consume the rest of your flight time ... without proper wind data and weather we're still missing a big chunk of being able to calculate all those factors including fuel burn, DH, go arounds, etc. etc.

AF2 will need complex aircraft system support to compete, but that's not gonna draw the "fanfare" initially.  Without weather/winds (especially winds aloft), aircraft physics can't be that accurate.  You want fanfare, simulate rain on the windshield/aircraft ... that single feature in FSW was echo'd frequently on LM's forums and elsewhere (as in please make it happen now) and appears to be a significant visual "big deal" for many.

Cheers, Rob.

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15 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Exactly!  not noticed ... That's why I believe they need to focus on those other items I listed before going into other areas of flight ... I'd fly a broomstick and enjoy it more than a complex aircraft IF those other elements I listed above were in place first.  I have my complex simulators and my complex aircraft ... it's a smaller audience that AF2 can "grow" into ... get the weather and interactive world happening first, that'll draw more "fanfare" than us systems-centric people that love to work with aircraft systems and do a ton of flight prep.

Don't get me wrong, I like aircraft complexity, but programming an Autopilot, doing the fuel calcs, DH, runway lengths, SIDs, STARs, Transition, Holding, etc. etc. is great, but once you hit the AP button, you'll have to bring about your immigration to consume the rest of your flight time ... without proper wind data and weather we're still missing a big chunk of being able to calculate all those factors including fuel burn, DH, go arounds, etc. etc.

AF2 will need complex aircraft system support to compete, but that's not gonna draw the "fanfare" initially.  Without weather/winds (especially winds aloft), aircraft physics can't be that accurate.  You want fanfare, simulate rain on the windshield/aircraft ... that single feature in FSW was echo'd frequent on LM's forums and elsewhere (as a please make happen now) and appears to be a significant visual "big deal" for many.

Cheers, Rob.

They did a poll and asked users what they wanted, and this was the priority given. In the end, what's most important seems to depend on who you are talking to. And maybe on phases of the moon. I could easily see them doing weather, and somebody asking about more systems depth. :unsure:

Plus I suspect more systems depth to work with might pull 3rd party aircraft makers in quicker, and that would be huge.

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