1 hour ago, YukonPete said:

FSX was at least 5 or 6 tweaks and then a bunch of settings in NV Inspector. P3Dv4 requires none!

Better tell the guys flooding avsim with a gtx 1080 and stutter fest complaints. 

No such thing as tweek free brother 

Your still dealing with ancient coding!!! 

What we need is a complete solution from the ground up and I believe dovetail are the gurus. 

V4 is a good medium term band aid but just oom free alone won't cut it 

Jeroen,

I felt pretty much like that sometimes...

I have stopped feeling in such a mood since I started using ( abusing !!! ) DCS World and IL.2 Battle of.... These are the sims that never let me down, in any way, even if they don't bring me ( yet ) the Whole World....

They're so good flight dynamics, graphics, overall modelling wise, that I can even forget they're combat oriented, and actually end up playing air combat ! Who could tell that some years ago ....

For a "leisure" airliner flight, nothing beats my good old - perfect! - Aerowinx now PSX. I use X-Plane 11 for the visuals ( sorry, but compared to DCS and IL.2, the only thing it is worth being used for... ).

I am more than fine this way, and already forgot about all of my other useless investments in other platforms...

 

It's alright for some of you guys (Sorry Poppet - and gals)...

...b-b-but what if you are really addicted - like me ?

There is NO WAY I can stop the urge - I live a few hundred metres from a GA/military training runway. At those very few times when I feel boredom is approaching and I start a little gardening - another pesky Grob or GA aircraft flies over me - and I can't drop the spade fast enough. Gives me an ache in the neck (or make me fall over) watching them....

..so I find that I've immediately got to fire up P3d and the Cherokee. I need treatment. Or a gardener....

In those immortal words from a previous Brit politician 'You have never had it so good !'
Gotta fly...

Com'on FSL...hurry up.

Regards
Bill

Jeroen

I have felt like that a few times over the past 20 years and I found that taking a break was indeed the best thing. The longest was 6 months, but you always come back renewed with enthusiasm.    You are sim saturated. :)  If you are getting bored with something that should be giving you pleasure, then your heart is just not in it.

 

 

I feel exactly the same as Jeroen. Each sim is lacking in things that I want that I rarely spend more than 10 or 15 minutes in any sim before getting bored or frustrated.

For X-Plane. I removed X-Plane 11 in anger as the graphical glitches, ugly water, dumbed down preferences, shadows and dull/hazy appearance put me off. Looks like these will never get fixed, so I'm back on X-Plane 10 which looks and performs better. I switched to XP9 from FSX a few years ago, and the sim still doesn't have seasons, better weather, usable ATC and I've had enough of downloading GBs of photoimagery and making my own sceneries just so I can have something decent to fly over. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

For P3D. This sim requires too many "pro" addons. I have it installed but don't often use it because I'm annoyed that the sim costs $200 and to get anything decent out of it, I need to continue to spend $$$ and time learning even more software which really the base sim should do (i.e. Decent weather, camera system, etc). I'm also not interested in flying Lockheed's military aircraft or expensive PMDG addons. I think with the right addons it looks visually much better than X-Plane, but it performs much worse. 20-30fps on a modern system is unacceptable when other "games" and simulators I have which look much nicer run at 60+. For $200 I'd expect a complete and professional simulator, and P3D fails at this for me.

For AFS. There is just too much missing in the base sim. It's fun for a few minutes, but flying over miles and miles of flat photoscenery feels like I'm watching the Google Earth app. Development is so painfully slow on this sim that I've lost faith that it will go anywhere.

For FSW. I like the direction this sim is going, it seems to be more fun out of the box. However, at this early stage it's lacking in many parts. So again, sessions are limited to 10-15 minutes. It's still using the old ESP engine, and it's time that was put to bed.

It's great we have so much choice these days, but all of the sims we have just seem half-finished, broken or require so much time and money to get working that it sucks all the enjoyment out of the hobby. I can only imagine how this situation looks to a new simmer trying one of the above for the first time.

Sorry for so much negativity and it could just be caused by the fact that being busy in real-life means I have less time and patience for simming, when all I really want to do is relax and enjoy our hobby.

 

 

 

 

13 hours ago, Ron Attwood said:

Take a break.

Agree with Ron.   Your disillusionment with the sim platforms may simply be co-indicental timing;  ie. coinciding with the periods that we all go through where we get a little bored and need to take a month or two break.   I get this at least once a year and call it "Pixel Syndrome" - the reason being, that when these periods come, using FS just feels like playing a game, or moving pixels around the screen - the sense of immersion and realism just disappears ............ but, thankfully, it's always temporary. :)

Quote

What we need is a complete solution from the ground up and I believe dovetail are the gurus

I am not convinced that another flight simulator that is based on the old FSX engine could be considered to be the "complete solution from the ground up".

Is a complete sim actually supposed to ever exist?
I am afraid the real problem here is the initial implicit premise: expectations. Nothing is complete ever, by definition. This also applies to real aviation, among the others.

It seems to me that many people are still having hard time accepting the end of the ESP monopoly era. However, as I pointed out many times, Microsoft FSX was more an exception than a rule. That monopoly, including the related misconceived mythology of the "open platform", resulted from a long list of concurrent and mostly coincidental factors which are not likely to happen again. In all today's main markets, especially in high technologies, several different incompatibile systems are in competition among themselves, each with its own strengths and weaknesses. Most people choose one and invest on it, few others invest on multiple platforms, often with different business models, trying to get out the most from each of them. Whatever way, none of them is or is supposed to ever be complete. This scenario is far from being limited to flight simulation.

I am afraid we have to live with this 'incompleteness' as part of the game and simply abandon the expectation of having everything we want in one package. There is no such thing, period. As someone already pointed out, failure to do so will inevitably result in frustration instead of pleasure.

6 hours ago, YukonPete said:

What a bunch of cry babies

There has never been such a great choice on offer and it's only getting better. P3Dv4 doesn't require all the tweaks FSX and previous P3D's required.  If you are so unhappy write a simulator program! Obviously then you will get exactly what you want right?

The topic is not about tweaks, everyone tweaks even the ones who said they don't.  Some actually enjoy the constant upgrade and tweaks toward some sim perfection.  To some of us cry babies as you so assumed are actually wondering how much time and money do we have to spend to get a decently behaved sim.   When it all becomes a chore, it's time to stop and go do something else.

5 hours ago, tonywob said:

.. but all of the sims we have just seem half-finished, broken or require so much time and money to get working that it sucks all the enjoyment out of the hobby.

This pretty much sums it all up.

Most of us in here will be dead before a 'full' product is ever released or completed.

Maybe you could think of boredom and frustration as part of the real as it gets phenomenon. No pilot's life is constant tingling excitement. I imagine hours of staring at landscape you've seen a hundred times thinking you're going to kick this smart FO into the back if he contradicts you once more and the same for that arrogant gate agent back there in Dallas. And that Chief Pilot is a jerk. The wife thinks all you care about is your job and she's about right. Why can't those idiots back there understand it's not my fault we're behind schedule. I should have listened to Dad and gone to Med school instead. So you see? All simming requires is imagination .                               Have a blessed day!☺

At the extreme risk of repeating myself -

Some folks see the glass half full and some see it half empty.

There is NO SUCH THING as a perfect sim and NEVER will be. There will always be some who want more than is available - that's the nature of the thing.

Best solution in the meanwhile? Change your attitude, not the sim - if you start up by looking for every stutter or graphic glitch you will find SOMETHING.

Attitude makes a world of difference.

Vic

Very interesting posts, I have to say! Thanks for chiming in, all! I think I indeed need a break, at least from my current sim. Maybe I will install one of the other sims I own after a while, just so I can focus on and enjoy a few of the things my current sim is lacking. But as it is now I don't even want to think about flying. It is as if I suddenly get what my wife is thinking whenever she sees me simming...

But well... knowing myself it wouldn't surprise me if I I'll be happily flying again within no time. We'll see.

My only quibble about FSX is ground handling in crosswinds, they never got that right and having flown real GA aircraft, had it been right FSX would be nearly perfect.  On my old eight year old rig, FSX is stable, averages about 30 fps with no AI and sliders near max, and I have a great suite of add-ons.  I have a lot of Carenado aircraft, although their t-props and jets get just average framerates.  I also have the realair Duke and Turbine which I just love, great detail and flight dynamics, and justflight's Duchess and R44.  Justflight gave a high level of support and when I pointed out that the trim tabs were reversed, they released a patch within hours.  I also still have FS9 for it's AI, graphics are maybe dated but it runs well on my rig.  I don't run it often but when I do I have enjoyable flights.  I sim about once a week I guess, mostly flying my Falcon UL, a trike I created and uploaded to Avsim, the Alabeo Cardinal and the Carenado Mirage.  I made photoreal scenery covering from Colorado westward to the Pacific (Colorado is in the file library here).  And photoreal scenery of central Europe, all at 1M which is fine at altitude.  I don't spin photoreal scenery anymore, not enough drivespace left, but I have enough for hours of flight in a variety of places.  I love flights over Nevada from the Sierras out over the basin and range country.

Clouds could be better in the sims, that they rotate and are not volumemetric takes away from the realism.  Also fogged in conditions aren't quite right, you can still see the sky peeking thru.  Fogged in conditions were great in FS2002, but they changed that.

The Carenado Mirage is my favorite GA aircraft, followed by the Alabeo Cardinal.  The Mirage can cover SFO to LA in a reasonable amount of time, Napa to Reno in about an hour.

I don't see myself investing in another sim with my current rig.  As I said earlier, when I want to see a real flight I go to Youtube.  Search on CaptainMoonBeam there, he shares many of his Citation flights and you get a good idea of ATC to single pilot jet operation.  Also search on Premieronedriver (hope I got that right), same thing,  They video in the seat and out the window, and you can see the gauges and airspeeds on climbout and cruise clearly.

The Internet is alive with resources for aviation fans like ourselves, both sim products, flight trackers (flightaware) and videos of flights, walkarounds of aircraft like the Piaggio Avanti, and so on.  If one wants to change sims, there are choices depending on faith, XP-11 is out there for people with rigs that can handle it and third party devs support it.  I have hope that as rigs improve, the sim providers will be there for us.

John

Sounds like you are looking for the perfect world.  I'm sorry, but it just doesn't exist in any aspect of life except the imaginary.