17 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

Yah. I was laughing because now that this happened, we are seeing conspiracy theories and suddenly reasons why polls are no good, whereas if the poll had supported some people's biases, the results would be trotted about the forum on a flag.

People is interesting critters.

Reminds me of a 'poll' (otherwise known as a 'referendum') we had in the UK a little while ago. 🙄

SDK (without this, there will be no high-quality add-ons)

VR

ATC

Seasons

Rotorcraft

Edited October 4, 20196 yr by GCBraun

Just now, HiFlyer said:

  whereas if the poll had supported some people's biases, the results would be trotted about the forum on a flag.

 

I hope you know better than to believe that. Or you have a really poor opinion of us all and be unhappy to visit so often this forum.. A decent simmer gives his or her opinion as requested with a word of explanation. And  sometimes he.she engages in hot debates. Nothing wrong so far. 

He/she does not go to Reddit shouting to gather votes and demeaning  other Avsim members who think otherwise than him/her to warm the crowd. This is NOT the Iowa caucuses, you know 😁.

I voted for seasons because I felt that way. If VR appears a priority for most, its all right if it is a genuine majority. I am afraid that I don't think it is.

About the conspiracy theory issue. Please, let us not be naive, all the Social networks are fertile grounds for manipulation. Necessary evil I suppose as a counterpart to freedom of expression.

Edited October 4, 20196 yr by domkle

16 minutes ago, domkle said:

He/she does not go to Reddit shouting to gather votes

You know, I might go for that if it was not for the fact that during the fairly recent navigraph survey people openly talked about posting the link in other specialist forums to get out the vote for things they liked.

And nobody had any issue with it that far as I saw.

Seems some may have done that here with unwanted results..... and immediately the poll is called into question.

Hmmmmmmmm.......

And does anyone seriously think that if VR was trounced in this poll as I suspect many expected it to be, that it would not have instantly become a talking point in other threads touching on the subject?

43 minutes ago, Ron Attwood said:

Reminds me of a 'poll' (otherwise known as a 'referendum') we had in the UK a little while ago. 🙄

VR means VR! 😀 It's winning by 0.35% currently, which is a landslide by UK standards.

2 minutes ago, nickhod said:

VR means VR! 

Don't forget to write the letter to MS asking to delay it.

Just now, HiFlyer said:

You know, I might go for that if it was not for the fact that during the fairly recent navigraph survey people openly talked about posting the link in other specialist forums to get out the vote for things they liked.

And nobody had any issue with it that far as I saw.

Seems some may have done that here with unwanted results..... and immediately the poll is called into question.

Hmmmmmmmm.......

And does anyone seriously think that if VR was trounced in this poll as I suspect many expected it to be, that it would not have instantly become a talking point in other threads touching on the subject?

If anybody behaves badly in the Navigraph survey (I take your word for it, I don't use Navigraph) does it justify anything like what we have seen the last two days here ?

Second point, VR is a tool, good or bad, among many others. Why some (some not all) users seem to have a persecution complex ?

Edited October 4, 20196 yr by domkle

Just now, domkle said:

Second point, VR is a tool, good or bad, among many others. Why some (some not all) users seem to have a persecution complex ?

Perhaps the fact that no other thread besides the one requesting vr was flooded with demands to have the feature take a back seat to others priorities.

It should have been a request in good standing, no more or less than others, and no more or less important. Instead the thread was blown up to a zillion pages (and counting) because some (not all) were apparently dead set against the request possibly receiving any priority above their own obviously far more legitimate desires.

That's gonna get peoples backs up, not least because in a true community, we should all be equal.

When some essentially declare their needs are rightfully more equal than others, nobody should be surprised at getting pushback.

Let me start by saying that, even though I don't use VR, I think that support for it should be incorporated in the new sim at some point (which seems to be the implication, anyway).

But how can you take seriously a poll which shows it to be the most requested feature when such a small proportion of people who use flight sims actually have a VR headset? It's only the most requested feature by those who have VR hardware! It would be like having force feedback joystick support as a poll option. Of course those who have one may vote for it but they can't possibly represent the wishes of the community as a whole as most don't have one. All of the other options are not hardware dependent and can easily be used by anyone who eventually buys the sim - even the SDK, whilst more specialised, doesn't require specific hardware and having it allows for third-party add-on development. Even if every person with a VR headset voted for it (and clearly many haven't unless the numbers are much, much smaller than we suspect), that would still be a very small (but obviously very vocal) proportion of the many flight sim users currently out there. The poll might be fun, but if VR comes out on top it still can't possibly be representative of the wishes of all users. That would imply that many people without VR headsets want VR to be a priority over other sim features. Really? The poll should only have included features which were accessible by everyone.

Edited October 4, 20196 yr by vortex681

I admit that there was some irritation against some posts just after the previewers released the B -roll video and some threads went a little hot.  

We saw some groundbreaking stuff and the only knee-jerk reaction of some was "no VR, no buy" or "not serious". Come on...  I add that some of these reactions came from members  that I appreciate the posts on other matters. It is not a We vs Them. 

VR users should stop to claim that there is some kind of persecution. Again VR is not a belief, a philosophy, an ideology. It is a tool. Not more, not less. Not more, no less than a Thrustmater Warthog or Track IR. It brings fun to some, others are sceptic.

Nobody asks VR to be put on the back seat , everybody has its own arguments, good or bad, for or against. Thats good. What some of us don't appreciate much is the manipulation of this poll. Not because VR is ahead, but because we wish it would be ahead for the good reasons.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, domkle said:

About the conspiracy theory issue.

Is it still a conspiracy theory if there is an actual conspiracy? 😄

 

1 hour ago, domkle said:

Again VR is not a belief, a philosophy, an ideology. It is a tool.

Apparently it is a religion, and its adherents are fanatics.

 

2 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

You know, I might go for that if it was not for the fact that during the fairly recent navigraph survey people openly talked about posting the link in other specialist forums to get out the vote for things they liked.

So the Navigraph survey was tainted as well?  The 11% was an inflated number? 

In that case the 2% of XPlane users is the best number we've got at the moment, and the most up to date.

Hook

1 hour ago, vortex681 said:

But how can you take seriously a poll which shows it to be the most requested feature when such a small proportion of people who use flight sims actually have a VR headset? It's only the most requested feature by those who have VR hardware! 

I don’t have a VR headset and I voted for VR... But I also tried VR before and understand why people are so crazy about it. It literally puts you in the game. It doesn’t get much more immersive than that. I plan on getting a system and headset when the time is right.

But the way I look at the poll is:

1. VR- b/c it provides a visual immersion of actually being in the sim, VR is currently the next best thing than actually flying

2. ATC- Very important part of flying and for those wanting to use the sim for flight training

3. Helicopters- Ability to fly around hover and land anywhere would be cool especially in a sim that you can go anywhere in the world with relatively high graphical fidelity and accuracy 

4. Seasons- We have dynamic weather so idk what this will add besides eye candy (different textures depending on season)

5. SDK- it’s already coming and will be out soon, not sure why it’s in the poll

If Microsoft don't confirm implementation of VR in the new flight simulator by 31st October, we will leave without a deal.

Dave.

3 minutes ago, dave belsey said:

If Microsoft don't confirm implementation of VR in the new flight simulator by 31st October, we will leave without a deal.

Dave.

Huh?

4 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

Yah. I was laughing because now that this happened, we are seeing conspiracy theories and suddenly reasons why polls are no good, whereas if the poll had supported some people's biases, the results would be trotted about the forum on a flag.

People is interesting critters.

The conspiracy people still have time to lobby an ATC union,  or a climate expert, or even the internet.  Get out there and prove once and for all that VR is not a big deal and growing.