I'm surprised by the comments in this thread implying that PMDG support (all-in approach) for MSFS is somehow new or unexpected.  In considering whether to buy PMDG planes for P3D (I just recently got P3D to the FS Labs A320 and I have MSFS 2020 and XP as well), I read through Randazzo's various forum posts.  It's been plain for roughly a year that PDMG was working on bringing its products to MSFS.  Moreover, PMDG's prior update (roughly February I think) specifically mentioned that many of the barriers to developing for MSFS were no longer a factor.  And if you have had chance to listen to PMDG's introductory youtube video for its new channel, Randazzo describes in some detail the relationship they've developed with Asobo. In any event, developing for MSFS 2020 is a good thing for everyone in the end.

The way I see it is that in the next 2 or 3 years, a huge percentage of the P3D community (many x-plane users too) will have moved over to MSFS. PMDG along with many other developers will want as much software as they can updated and working in MSFS. So from a business point of view, they are doing the right thing. So, how about from customer point view? Personally, when I finally make the move over to MSFS from P3D, I want as much bug-free software available to me to choose from as possible. So to me. PMDG putting more resources into developing for MSFS is a good thing.

But of course, PMDG have made some promises to P3D users. 737-MAX, 777 VC update, etc, so I do hope that these projects don't get pushed aside like the promised JS41 update.      

 

12 minutes ago, james42 said:

The way I see it is that in the next 2 or 3 years, a huge percentage of the P3D community (many x-plane users too) will have moved over to MSFS

This is because the assumption is, XP and P3D will remain the same with no changes forever.. but what if this is not the case? guessing these things are really hard.. what if XP comes with some amazing changes and therefore their user base decides they want to go back to it?

None of the 3 platforms manufactures have stopped development...

S.

Edited May 24, 20215 yr by simbol

30 minutes ago, james42 said:

But of course, PMDG have made some promises to P3D users. 737-MAX, 777 VC update, etc, so I do hope that these projects don't get pushed aside like the promised JS41 update. 

If PMDG produces a 737max for p3d, then I will be buying my 1st PMDG product. I'm also not holding my breath.

Can this quote from RSR be any clearer?

"As of today. THIS day, we still have an active development agenda in P3D and developers working within the platform daily. We have updates pending for the 737, 777, 747 and DC-6 product lines and new products still on the development agenda. In no place and at no time have I hinted that these are off the table simply because we are also now developing for MSFS."

21 minutes ago, simbol said:

This is because the assumption is, XP and P3D will remain the same with no changes forever.. but what if this is not the case? guessing these things are really hard.. what if XP comes with some amazing changes and therefore their user base decides they want to go back to it?

The only way I see P3D and X-Plane remaining relevant is if LM or Laminar create a new engine for each sim. MSFS has shown us what is possible with the latest developments in software and I feel that some users, epically new comers to flight sims will not accept anything less. Of course, if LM or Laminar do pull something amazing out of their hat in the near future, things could get very interesting indeed.    

45 minutes ago, james42 said:

The way I see it is that in the next 2 or 3 years, a huge percentage of the P3D community (many x-plane users too) will have moved over to MSFS.

 

they wont if theres no decent payware tubeliners.  which at the moment there is none. 

saying that if pmdg, fsl or qw released the 744,777,737,a32x,787 on MS2020  id be over there like a rocket.  im sick to death of LM being quite happy to sell me  or  "simmers in general" P3D, and then doing naff all when it comes to fixing the issues, because we are not as important as their corporate and military customers.  if you dont want to support simmers, dont sell to us.

The day I can remove P3d off my pc will be a happy day for me, it cant come quick enough.  I would quite happily do ms2020 only flights on the qw 787 , or pmdg 737  for example, if it enabled me to remove P3D from my machine.  that is how much contempt I have for LM.  Hard hat on for inbound flack,  but thats just my opinion. 

 

Edited May 24, 20215 yr by fluffyflops

11 minutes ago, james42 said:

The only way I see P3D and X-Plane remaining relevant is if LM or Laminar create a new engine for each sim. MSFS has shown us what is possible with the latest developments in software and I feel that some users, epically new comers to flight sims will not accept anything less. Of course, if LM or Laminar do pull something amazing out of their hat in the near future, things could get very interesting indeed.    

My point is, we never know.. but these platform are not staying static for sure.. nobody has made a public announcement saying: "We give up, we are closing down development". MSFS was keep under secret while being developed for years, it came out and it was a big boom. We can't predict the future, same thing could happen with XP, P3D or even a new platform coming out of nowhere..

S.

45 minutes ago, james42 said:

The way I see it is that in the next 2 or 3 years, a huge percentage of the P3D community (many x-plane users too) will have moved over to MSFS.

Not the people who don’t have a decent internet connection. It would become a frustrating experience.

P3D will remain my preferred simulator for one simple reason. FS Labs Concorde will only be available for P3D. There are no plans for a MSFS version given supersonic flight is not currently possible in that sim.

And quite frankly, when I’m cruising at FL370 the P3D world with all the enhancements I have makes it a very pleasurable experience.

I will probably buy MSFS at some point but I see it as a VFR simulator only and P3D will definitely remain on my system.

41 minutes ago, simbol said:

My point is, we never know.. but these platform are not staying static for sure.. nobody has made a public announcement saying: "We give up, we are closing down development". MSFS was keep under secret while being developed for years, it came out and it was a big boom. We can't predict the future, same thing could happen with XP, P3D or even a new platform coming out of nowhere..

S.

Yes it could, but given the historic pace and cadence of P3D development, I'm not sure that I wouldn't be better betting on bitcoin at the moment!  Regardless, LM isn't going to go away, MSFS will continue to evolve, I have sufficient aircraft and scenery to last me a long time with P3D....so I just see 2 sims, one useable for me now, one not quite yet, but both with more potential to give me better experiences down the line. 👍

 

 

1 hour ago, fluffyflops said:

Hard hat on for inbound flack

Deliberate aiming wide here, but I think you meant https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flak_(disambiguation)#:~:text=Flak typically refers to the,derived from Flugabwehrgeschütz (flag). 😛

You guys sound really insecure. There is 2 millions possible customer on MSFS. All PMDG is doing is getting some of that money. This will help fund all the other project they have going including some of the P3D one.  I would predict though that MSFS will become their main platform soon. The thing with MSFS is that it's involving at a rapid pace. while P3D is barely moving. Asobo is catching up faster than ever before.  What was not possible last month is now old news. FSLabs can stay behind P3D as long as they want but soon the well is going to dry up and they will have to do what others have done and move over to MSFS. They will be so far behind in terms of development knowledge of the platform compare to other 3rd party that they might not recover.  There is major 3rd party product for me on P3D : Leornardo, Majestic and PMDG. They all moving to MSFS.  So what will be left for P3D ? Just FSLabs ? maybe Milviz ? 

Once 3rd party sees the $$$ from the MSFS side, it's hard to build a business plan around a platform that is so small compare to MSFS.

Where did anyone get the idea that a dev is only allowed to dance with the one girl?  Snubbing P3D?  No, I don't see it that way. 

We have three fairly mature PMDG product lines in P3Dv5 now, and I see no indication that they've shelved continued refinement of those.  Together with FSL's airbus line, we have pretty good hi-fi coverage of the modern airline fleet in P3D.  Sure, I'd like to see a PMDG 767, or even some retro birds like a 727, 707, or DC-3 in P3D, but they don't owe us that.

Nowhere is it written that if PMDG's experience with Brand X turns out to be good that they can't bring on more talent and produce for both markets.

 

1 hour ago, james42 said:

The way I see it is that in the next 2 or 3 years, a huge percentage of the P3D community (many x-plane users too)

James

There maybe some that would move to MSFS from X Plane but they would have move anyway. However it will not be the vase majority of users, many of them on different operating systems who care not to run in the Windows ecosystem let alone MSFS. They are quite happen where they are and can eep many of what they invested today and into the future. As for X-plane, it is not sitting still, two or three years from now is a long time to assume nothing will change for them. 

9 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

You guys sound really insecure. There is 2 millions possible customer on MSFS. All PMDG is doing is getting some of that money. This will help fund all the other project they have going including some of the P3D one.  I would predict though that MSFS will become their main platform soon. The thing with MSFS is that it's involving at a rapid pace. while P3D is barely moving. Asobo is catching up faster than ever before.  What was not possible last month is now old news. FSLabs can stay behind P3D as long as they want but soon the well is going to dry up and they will have to do what others have done and move over to MSFS. They will be so far behind in terms of development knowledge of the platform compare to other 3rd party that they might not recover.  There is major 3rd party product for me on P3D : Leornardo, Majestic and PMDG. They all moving to MSFS.  So what will be left for P3D ? Just FSLabs ? maybe Milviz ? 

Once 3rd party sees the $$$ from the MSFS side, it's hard to build a business plan around a platform that is so small compare to MSFS.

i don't disagree that msfs market is growing and p3d is shrinking.  But I do disagree with you that that there are 2m possible customers on msfs.  I think we need to differentiate from people who are actively using MSFS, and people who have game pass and used it once or twice to fly over their house. Then never came back.  I do agree with the implied premise that MSFS has made flight simulation a bigger market.  I also think people are continuously forgetting that p3d is primarily a commercially focused platform.  I don't have a dog in the fight.  I see good and bad in both sims.  But I can tell you a commercial flight training customer (or military) is not going to be able to get MSFS and then wait for an hour for it to update itself without the ability to delay the update.  Not to mention the things that update can break downstream.  Most of us here are not commercial customers so I say that with a grain of salt.  

 

Back to the question at hand.  I'll be happy if we get a 737 max and updated 777 for p3d.  That's really all I want and all I'm expecting.  my airliner flying won't be going over to msfs for a while.  All the things it is still missing will have to be corrected first.