4 minutes ago, Scottoest said:

Bob, at the moment I'd just give them a few days to digest and respond to some of the issues being reported.  This update features some major rendering changes in the name of hardware optimization, and it was pretty inevitable that some stuff would get wonky or break by accident on PC.

You're talking to a grown kid. It's hopeless. He was the same one talking trash because everyone was then he installed the update and the same thing he was talking trash about, he suddenly started saying good things. Now he's back with more conspiracies lol

I was expected this thread to appear. AVSIM so predictable.

1 minute ago, fogboundturtle said:

I was expected this thread to appear. AVSIM so predictable.

Fish, fish, fish!

Haha, see? I bet you didn't predict I was gonna put that in a reply.

16 hours ago, Isaiah53six said:

I realise this post will no doubt upset a lot of console word not allowed but I'm frustrated with Microsoft/Asobo. I was not given a choice on whether or not to install this mandatory update.  With the latest update being "mandatory" this proves they are pandering to the xbox/console users. What if the sim was running great before and we don't want it? And it was for me. What if I don't want a performance update at the sacrifice of pop-in, poor draw distances and blurry graphics.  No matter, this new console targeted update is tailor made for new simmers on the Xbox is MANDATORY for everyone.  I do hope Microsoft/Asobo rectifies the situation but I won't hold my breath. 

It’s a commercial software product. It’s a business. They have to support their product and with software, you can’t support an endless variety of versions and configurations. Having a huge variety of hardware on the PC side is difficult enough…so yeah, they prefer XBOX customers who have a known stable configuration.

I guess if there was a way to allow people to opt out of updates, then folks would complain that “this add on isn’t compatible” and no longer works, because the update broke something or the add on maker no longer supports the old version.

It’s a $100 game. Consumer adoption by the broadest audience possible is the goal. The goal isn’t to support a narrow audience who wants to simulate a specific aspect of being an airline pilot on a PC.

Edited July 28, 20214 yr by neil0311

44 minutes ago, styckx said:

Goodbye MSFS till whenever this garbage is fixed.. Way to take the immersion out of a simulator Asobo. Beside everything else. AN ENTIRE BRIDGE SPANNING A RIVER POPPED IN.  Garbage.. Garbage Garage.. PC users were robbed 

Jeez! Okay, take a step back and relax. And let's be realistic, how would they achieve that performance if there some comprise somewhere. We really can't have the whole package, not all of us are having NASA PCs. Personally, I found the way they did is actually pretty smart. Would be nice if they just can introduce a slider to control that in case of the NASA PCs folks. 

16 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Maybe that is the goal of MS, to create so many negatives in the PC version, even on a $2,000 PC, that people will just go out and buy an X box..... MSFS 2020 did not need one "tweak" prior to SU5. Looks like those days are gone now. 

Very droll. It's hardly a tweak, it's just a cfg setting to see if it improves a very specific problem you have that no one else has mentioned. MFS needed a tweak before SU5 to make it perform better, it just didn't exist.

9 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

I was expected this thread to appear. AVSIM so predictable.

And it will get more, it reminds back to August last year lol 

 6 minutes ago, omarsmak30 said:

Jeez! Okay, take a step back and relax. And let's be realistic, how would they achieve that performance if there some comprise somewhere. We really can't have the whole package, not all of us are having NASA PCs. Personally, I found the way they did is actually pretty smart. Would be nice if they just can introduce a slider to control that in case of the NASA PCs folks. 

  Meh, just let them storm off onto whatever other simulator they want to use. When they appear back here, remember to ceaselessly mock them by quoting that post and their others 🤣

Edited July 28, 20214 yr by ckyliu

17 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

I was expected this thread to appear. AVSIM so predictable.

Don’t blame the messenger or the platform. Inanimate objects are neither predictable or unpredictable.

For what is worth, here are my 2 cents of a certain number of sub-topics in this topic.

Objects popping in 

I can't talk about pre-Aug 2020 release, but I've read comments here or at reddit (can't remember) saying the autogen was fadin-in/out smoothly and far away enough to blend perfectly with the ground. 

SU5 is a regression to me for two reasons at least:

- there is a visibility rule the end user can't change to balance perf/visuals to the system.
- there is an arbitrary size rule (5%) which is not calibrated to be visually pleasing.

About the latter, what this means is that object culling by LOD doesn't depend on the actual object render size on screen. For example, elongated horizontal objects are not culled the same than cubic object of the same height, because culling depends on the object size overall and not the size on screen only.

IIRC the object "size" is defined with a sphere radius value which is encompassing the entire object. This also requires if I'm not mistaken that the modeler sets this size in the model properly. IMO the game should cull objects only on vertical size render size by default, with a per-object override in order to address specific cases where it would fail otherwise.

Xbox impoverishing PC version

I believe this is both true and false.

On one hand, there are a number of technical and API choices which based on the common denominator and because of this for example, there is no force feedback support because this one uses a Microsoft API which is not available on Xbox. Nothing should prevent using it in the PC only version though, but for now at least, this doesn't seem to be on the radar at all. It is legitimate to wondering what other type of features could be implemented on the PC but is not only because support for these features is not available on Xbox. Conversely, VR support is not supported at all on Xbox yet the PC version is offering it.

On the other hand, development for the console imposes more stringent use of the hardware and therefore is a strong incentive to optimizing the code which benefits everyone, like we can see with SU5 overall. However the type of optimizations done because of the Xbox could have been made the same even if there would have been no Xbox version at all. In other words, we're not getting more perf on PC because there is an Xbox version but we're getting more perf on both PC and Xbox because developers have done more optimizations, regardless it is for PC or Xbox.

Having said this, what I can observe with SU5 is that my video card is under used, which leads me to the next point

Out of view objects culling

There is no question a lot of people are observing this and I'm wondering why some are not observing this as much, like in the video posted a few pages earlier. I can tell you in VR it is even worse to me.

The issue is very simple: there is no reason to draw objects out of view, this is basic culling done at the rendering level on the video card hardware. Nevertheless, you can further optimize in not letting the video card processing invisible geometry either. In other words and to make it simple, in addition to the pixel shader not painting pixels you don't see, geometry culling is making sure the vertex shader is not processing geometry you don't see. 

It is a sound way to optimizing rendering and it is perfectly suited for the DX12 API which has much better multithreading optimization capabilities and which permits, like with Vulkan or Metal, to rethink the rendering of geometry and textures in terms of streaming assets from RAM to VRAM instead of pre-loading them (P3D5 is offering you a setting for this by the way). This is a model which is also perfectly suited for the Xbox X/S and PS5 which are supporting STORAGE->VRAM direct streaming.

So what does this have to do with Xbox and PC? To me it is very simple: how much of your VRAM is used in SU5.

In other words, is SU5 fully using most of your VRAM to pre-loading as much assets so that the rendering engine doesn't have to stream as much, or is your VRAM usage more or less close to the actual Xbox memory standards? On my test system using a 2070S, it uses on average about 3GB out of 8GB... In this case, pre-loading assets to fill more VRAM would allow displaying the geometry which was culled in turning the head much faster when turning the head back (probably).

The issue is that DX11 and DX12 are really 2 different API which aren't offering the same optimizations opportunities. I'm quite amazed at the level Asobo has been pushing the DX11 API with SU5 but this has its limits as well.

Edited July 28, 20214 yr by RXP

13 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

Very droll. It's hardly a tweak, it's just a cfg setting to see if it improves a very specific problem you have that no one else has mentioned. MFS needed a tweak before SU5 to make it perform better, it just didn't exist.

You are incorrect, the blurry DC6 cockpit textures have  been mentioned on two other forums, one of which is the PMDG forum. 

Not seen it mentioned for any other aircraft, so perhaps it's a PMDG specific thing? Like any update, it needs a few days to bed down and some fixes to be issued (both by Asobo and third party developers), then it'll be clearer what, if any, long term issues will be.

Edited July 28, 20214 yr by ckyliu

5 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Don’t blame the messenger or the platform. Inanimate objects are neither predictable or unpredictable.

Yup, the only thing that whines louder than a Pratt and Whitney JT8D when it is cranking up, is a flight simmer when a patch comes out.

6 minutes ago, RXP said:

For what is worth, here are my 2 cents of a certain number of sub-topics in this topic.

Objects popping in 

I can't talk about pre-Aug 2020 release, but I've read comments here or at reddit (can't remember) saying the autogen was fadin-in/out smoothly and far away enough to blend perfectly with the ground. 

SU5 is a regression to me for two reasons at least:

Thank you for so eloquently putting into detailed words why so many have a problem with this culling. It's simply unsightly. 

 

Clouds were good : they are bad

Ground was good: it is bad.

Textures of houses were good : they are bad

Trees were good: they are bad

Colors were good: they are bad

Light was good : it is bad

Planes were bad : they are worse

I am so happy from this new simulator ........................................................................................................................................................................😃