1 hour ago, Bobsk8 said:

Then I would call the West Coast and talk to the person there that had my job for that region, and he would tell me that he had reported the exact same problem to Japan weeks ago. So I quickly learned that the first response was always denial. Then when hammered with repeated complaints, they would eventually admit there was a problem and start working on a fix. Many large companies do the same thing, take a look at Boeing recently. 

Yah, today it's even worse, the first response is an automated voice message system that then hangs up on you, or with a strange voice tells you to call a different number. I was in customer support many many many years ago, back in the early days of IT. I once fielded a support ticket that went something along the lines of....

"It's the weekend, no sales, I am going to beat someone to d****, where are you now?".

Now normally you'd just think, ok that has to be fake or spam, but it was from a REAL customer. I didn't answer it, though I thought about it.

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by Alpine Scenery

24 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

I've always been impressed by the top 10 or so guys on how Asobo set the direction of the SIM. I'm a critic at heart though, much like a movie critic, and that's not to look for mal-intent towards anyone, but it's just who or what I am. That said, I do have lines I absolutely do not cross, but there were some others that I felt actually crossed into Jerry Springer territory many times, on both sides. I know if someone is taking flack in any argument it always seems like the fault is only on one side, but it's complicated.

Anyways, as I noted there were bandwidth issues after the patch that caused many of us to over-extend our initial findings, but as far as REAL issues go, I will wait to read the Aug 12th report (or whenever it is), to find out how they are going to get the DEV mode back to a proper productive environment without having tasks that used to take 10 minutes now take 30 minutes or longer (like having to restart sometimes).

 

 

For us non programmer types, what does the developer mode actually do, or what is it's main purpose?

9 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

Sure, and I understand that. At the same time, while I did see some extra load-in, I was also able to crank up the settings in other ways and get more detail than I could get before, personally, and that felt like it would be on average a win for everyone. And definitely some people in flighting did sound the alarm, but in general it's hard to tell how beta tester feedback will translate, because beta testers are a self-selected segment, and so you tend to get a big bias, even if the pool is really large.

Nonetheless, of course, nobody is ignoring the lessons that can be taken away from this, from the dev end.

-Matt

Hence the imminent introduction of a slider to cache assets outside the current viewpoint, so kudos to them. They are doing great, and I hope their morale returns.

I knew exactly why we got the popping in suddenly, and can understand why people don't like it. Personally, I prefer having no pop-in or less of it, so welcome a slider, because even though I have a GTX1070, I've always managed to run it on ultra settings at a smooth frame rate (overall). I haven't once looked at a FPS monitor; I honestly don't see the difference with this performance increase, because I'm leaving it capped at 30FPS.

If the pop-in had remained with no forthcoming option to set things back to how they used to be -- well, it wouldn't bother me enough to concern myself over it, because I guess I'm used to this technique being used in pretty much every other game engine, so I'm used to bits of detail drawing in.

But options/sliders are always a great thing, to give more people what they want. So long as more users start to understand that there must be compromise somewhere. We are still capped by hardware limitations, despite the latest GPUs. If you want to set slider X high, you might have to put slider Y a bit lower. Compromise.

Anyone who used the term "gaslighting" in relation to SU5 reaction should hang their head in shame. Gaslighting is serious psychological abuse and vulnerable victims are often trapped in the situation; it's not a term to be bandied about because someone replies to a comment saying "I don't have that issue myself". You know who you are.

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by ckyliu

32 minutes ago, RandallR said:

Just one question - how in the heck are you flying the TBM?  Since the update, I can no longer get throttle control (the throttle will not move into feathered high idle position) - every remedy that has been recommended to me has failed.

This is a good example of something that gets bundled in as a 'bug', when in fact it was a feature enhancement.

Although I'm not getting at you Randal, as it was rather quietly publicized.

So, you now need to assign an axis (or key presses, I'll come to that in a mo) to your Propeller Axis assignment in the Controls options.  Moving the propeller axis, moves the throttle lever across the gate, into high idle. 👍

If you don't have a spare axis, you can assign keys for Prop Max and Prop Min (These aren't the exact names; but words to this effect; you'll easily find them in the controls assignment list for "Propeller".   Likewise, activating those keys will move the throttle across the gate.

Mouse dragging is still used for moving from cut-off to low idle, but you need to use the following technique to move into High Idle.

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by JYW

29 minutes ago, RandallR said:

Thanks - well, I won't be doing that (at least for now). I'm going to wait for the hotfix to see what happens, then proceed from there.  If the TBM is still unusable after that, I guess I'll go the reinstall route, as I sure miss that aircraft.

I think that I flew the TBM yesterday but had to use the (AI Assisted) checklist to start the engine.

I'll give it another go today.

Cheers

bs

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by bean_sprout

32 minutes ago, RandallR said:

Just one question - how in the heck are you flying the TBM?  Since the update, I can no longer get throttle control (the throttle will not move into feathered high idle position) - every remedy that has been recommended to me has failed.

Hi Randall,

Did you try setting the throttle to taxi, then with the mouse pointer above the throttle, left-click and keep it clicked and then simultaneously right-click once ?

The throttle should then move to the right.

23 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

Sure, and I understand that. At the same time, while I did see some extra load-in, I was also able to crank up the settings in other ways and get more detail than I could get before, personally, and that felt like it would be on average a win for everyone. And definitely some people in flighting did sound the alarm, but in general it's hard to tell how beta tester feedback will translate, because beta testers are a self-selected segment, and so you tend to get a big bias, even if the pool is really large.

Nonetheless, of course, nobody is ignoring the lessons that can be taken away from this, from the dev end.

-Matt

The problem comes in for those of us who were already playing on Ultra settings. We only saw a visual degradation, at the gain of some FPS but those FPS were not worth the visual downgrade for us. That combined with the fact that we were promised no 'dumbing down' results in the outrage we have seen. 

Also, when a new 'update' comes out with more bugs than initial release, 11 months later, you're bound to upset people. I'm not quite sure how this update passed QA with the amount of new bugs it has... that alone is enough to outrage people even if it weren't for the downgraded visuals issue.

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by MultiMediaWill

50 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

And, now, you have instead a pretty demoralized team scratching their heads, because

This makes me sad also.

Regards

bs

6 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

I definitely hope Asobo keeps the culling and the pop-ins for people like me with a very mediocre computer.  At the same time, a slider that allows people with powerful and expensive computers to get the best out of MSFS is also needed to satisfy their needs.

If I may add to that perspective, as someone with a system that barely meets the minimum requirements, it is refreshing to finally be able to fly over photogrammetry cities without extreme stutters and OOM errors, but at the same time, flying over mountains, which is a scenario where I absolutely did not need more performance, feels like absolute garbage now. The culling was a potentially great addition, but in the end not so great without the ability to adjust/disable it, and not just for those with cutting-edge systems in my opinion.

Considering how long the terrain morphing and some other issues have been a problem now, I was afraid that this would be a semi-permanent side effect, but words can't say how much excited I am that by the end of this month I will be able to enjoy flights over photogrammetry Vienna and the terrific Swisstopo mesh. Yesterday's announcement was truly an unexpected and very pleasant surprise.

12 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

Gaslighting is serious psychological abuse and the victims are often trapped in the situation, 

Don't get too PC about a specific term as lightweight and commonly used in general talk by referring to it in its worst case scenario (and for the record I was not using the term, only once i referred to it). There are far worse things people can and do say in a forum (and did say directly to us). I cannot repeat half the stuff that was said, or i would get in trouble, some of it was that bad. I know some people likely at the very least got a pretty long timeout for some of their statements.

I was on the other end of some of that, and yet I had no issues keeping relatively cool headed, hence I never got into any hot water situatons. So as noted, my conscience is clean.

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by Alpine Scenery

48 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

What you see in SU5 is the effort of 6+ months of dedicated engineering work and day in and day out absolute laser focus on a quality engine refactor and truly tangible performance boost. Nobody felt that making it work on the XBox was a chore they had to complete so they'd just hack and slash until it worked (and gut the PC); on the contrary, they felt it was an awesome opportunity to really truly tune the parts of the engine that often you just don't have time to tune as much as you would like. And they were truly, honestly, pretty giddy (and I mean that, there was seriously a palpable excitement) to give all of you a huge performance boost. The developers really did think that simmers would be absolutely so super stoked to go fly with a way smoother, faster product. And, now, you have instead a pretty demoralized team scratching their heads, because everyone kept hearing over and over that performance was one of the biggest complaints, and that yeah, visuals are great and all, but they don't make a great sim, and what good are they if it isn't smooth and fast?

*IF* a performance boost were to come at the expense of some visual quality then if that isn't communicated by the developers up-front then upset simmer should be an expected result.

I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS WHAT HAS HAPPENED WITH SU5 but rather that in general open communications needs to happen about the less good stuff and compromises that are necessary and not just about all the shiny new stuff

 

43 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

I think folks need to exhibit some understanding.  

The stuff you see in hotfix two are just a result of things being unintentionally missed, not due to a scramble to change direction to undo the XBoxification of the sim or any other such insanity.

-Matt

 I have only minor complaints about SU5 and I said I appreciate it better now than when it was imposed on us (yes, imposed, and this is part of the story).  Except for the crude light that I can alleviate with filters, it works for me. Now we have around here a lot people who are really unhappy. People who love the sim, good people, not cranks, not conspiracists.  Why ? Something to think about in Redmont and Bordeaux ?

 This sim was released a year ago with the promise of sensational graphics. And it kept its promise. Then we have seen along the months the graphic quality attenuated. We have also seen persistent systemic bugs (weather etc.). Did we ask for for better performance ? Not the feeling I have reading regularly this forum. Like many I didn't ask for FPS, I asked for a better weather, better aircraft etc. The team decided nonetheless that what I needed was FPS.  Its call, not ours.

I do not think a minute that Asobo wanted to cripple the PC version.  I would count on the fingers on one hand who said that here. On the MFS forums it is another story.  On the other hand

1/ we had the technical director of ASobo explaining us that they did a huge refactoring focusing on an exhaustive trimming to put the code in a S box tiny 6+2 GB memory. It gives the feeling that the SU5 issues were not intentional but a bad consequence of it. Just telling us it aint so, is a little short. 

2/ We had  Neuman, who decided to couple SU5 and the release of the Xbox version (what a great idea to sow the confusion !)  telling us  From day one, we decided that we couldn’t sacrifice quality. It needs to be completely intact and maybe even better. The good news is that it looks great and it plays in some ways better . Hyping is a dangerous game when you don't deliver or people have the perception you don't deliver.

  The MFS team boasts to listen to the user base. Can't complain this time, we were loud enough  (bad joke I know). Seriously, maybe the communication channels between you and your customers, at least those frequenting this and the offcial forum are not the best ?

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by Dominique_K

11 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

For us non programmer types, what does the developer mode actually do, or what is it's main purpose?

It provides live background technical data of particular use to programmer sorts / third party modelers such as airport designers who want to gauge the impact of their efforts on the performance of the sim on the hardware it is running on.

Certain headline stuff in Developer Mode like Frames Per Second display has an attraction beyond the developers; people who want to tweak various options in the sim to get as optimal behavior as they can for their hardware for example.

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by Humble Jim

27 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

Sure, and I understand that. At the same time, while I did see some extra load-in, I was also able to crank up the settings in other ways and get more detail than I could get before, personally, and that felt like it would be on average a win for everyone. And definitely some people in flighting did sound the alarm, but in general it's hard to tell how beta tester feedback will translate, because beta testers are a self-selected segment, and so you tend to get a big bias, even if the pool is really large.

Nonetheless, of course, nobody is ignoring the lessons that can be taken away from this, from the dev end.

-Matt

I'm glad that lessons are being learned. Hopefully they are the right ones so there isn't a repeat of what transpired.