1 hour ago, Deleted said:

No information to the roadmap? Is Fenix already in the BETA?

Both the Fenix A320 and the PMDG NG3 are in alpha.

Aamir from Fenix at one point said beta was "weeks away", but this during the summer, and since then we've had no further insight into a release window or roadmap to BETA. As for the NG3, the roadmap has been nudged 4 times since its first announcement. The first roadmap was a 4Q20 or 1Q21 release, the 2nd roadmap was a 3Q21 or 4Q21 release. The 3rd roadmap was a 4Q21 release, and the most recent roadmap has been "no release date estimate," which puts the NG3 in the same spot as the Fenix A320.

This leaves us with no release date for any of the "study level" aircraft in development for MSFS, (Leonardo MD80, PMDG NG3 / 777 / 747 / 757, Fenix Sim A320, FBW A320 / A380) but if I were a betting man, and I grew up in Las Vegas NV, I'd say we'll see at least the Fenix A320, Leonardo MD80, and PMDG NG3 by this time next year.

We'll see...

 

1 hour ago, WestAir said:

Both the Fenix A320 and the PMDG NG3 are in alpha.

Aamir from Fenix at one point said beta was "weeks away", but this during the summer, and since then we've had no further insight into a release window or roadmap to BETA. As for the NG3, the roadmap has been nudged 4 times since its first announcement. The first roadmap was a 4Q20 or 1Q21 release, the 2nd roadmap was a 3Q21 or 4Q21 release. The 3rd roadmap was a 4Q21 release, and the most recent roadmap has been "no release date estimate," which puts the NG3 in the same spot as the Fenix A320.

This leaves us with no release date for any of the "study level" aircraft in development for MSFS, (Leonardo MD80, PMDG NG3 / 777 / 747 / 757, Fenix Sim A320, FBW A320 / A380) but if I were a betting man, and I grew up in Las Vegas NV, I'd say we'll see at least the Fenix A320, Leonardo MD80, and PMDG NG3 by this time next year.

We'll see...

 

Good point. I will add to you list at least Milviz ATR 72-600, JustFlight BAE 146, iniBuilds A310, TFDI MD11 - These are aircrafts for which some "previews" were released

Let's not forget about aircraft that can be "suddenly" released, because the dev decided not to release any development progress info: 

We have FS Labs (they haven't disclosed anything but there is MSFS option within their FS Labs Control Center)

Aerosoft is working on A330

QualityWings announced in 1Q 2021 that 787 will be released in 3Q 2021, but then due to some difficulties (I assume similar to PMDG/Fenix) they decided to not provide any release timeline

Edited December 11, 20214 yr by ark4diusz

11 hours ago, ark4diusz said:

Aerosoft is working on A330

They recently said that they're months away from a beta.

On 12/9/2021 at 8:37 AM, janda said:

Hello, there is only one thing that puzzles me, why only PMDG constantly complains about problems, when, for example, Fenix team and its A320 informs us in subsequent updates and there is not a single word that something does not suit them, that Asobo is to blame, etc. etc., more! how will you see on their discord video - they even managed to handle the windshield wipers and the rain themselves !!! .... can someone explain it to me? 🙂 🙂

btw - Fenix a320 - will blow away all and any A320 sim on any platform to date..

I disagree...Fenix is brand new to this. with the likes of Fslabs and the in-depth systems they have on their addons I feel like they are currently in the lead. Here's a better question to pose to yourself....why would a company take on the A320 when freeware is already a viable. Why not the A220 or something else why try to work on something thats already being worked  on. Andd....lastly PMDG will always drag but its not because in this time they want to its more due to a lack of a complete SDK. Thats what happens when you release a sim in the early and uncomplete stages. 

1 hour ago, united4life said:

why would a company take on the A320 when freeware is already a viable.

They began developing the Fenix A320 long before the FBW A320 existed.

1 hour ago, united4life said:

its more due to a lack of a complete SDK. Thats what happens when you release a sim in the early and uncomplete stages. 

With all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about. Not only has PMDG/ASOBO said the recent issues with NG3 development were not because of the SDK, but Iceman and others have said the SDK is not a roadblock to study level aircraft.

Regarding ASOBO and their recent Q&A Twitch, I was puzzled to find out that after all all that mess about the development being stopped due to an incontournable limitation imposed by the MFS SDK it turned ou to be a rather simple and already available feature that the PMDG programmers simply didn't know how to deal with !  Ridiculous to say the least !!!

Whatch from 00:53 on... where Sebastien explains what the "quirk" really was.... Laughable 🤣

Edited January 29, 20224 yr by jcomm

35 minutes ago, WestAir said:

They began developing the Fenix A320 long before the FBW A320 existed.

With all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about. Not only has PMDG/ASOBO said the recent issues with NG3 development were not because of the SDK, but Iceman and others have said the SDK is not a roadblock to study level aircraft.

I have ton of quotes from PMDG, Fenix et al. where they talk about phases of development where they don't even know if the stuff they need to do will work AT ALL. Why do you think this would be the case, if it wasn't for the SDK?
And - with all due respect - I'd rather take the word from professional developers than from a dev team, that is still far off from any complex system simulation. With all due respect for FBW and their amazing workt, how can Iceman say "there is no roadblock to study level aircraft", if neither he nor anyone else has been there yet for MSFS?
Oh and one more thing: PMDG once told about a debug process that took 3 minutes with P3D but 20 hours with MSFS' debug tools... would you consider those things a "roadblock"? After all, a roadblock means you can still go around it, but if the way around takes so much time, it might just not be worth it anymore (I hope you get the analogy).

I think it would provide additional context to include the FlyByWire team in this discussion. No hyperbole, no rambling excuses. Just hard work and overcoming difficult problems by community collaboration and application of innovative code. 

Phoenix still alive? For a long time there was no new information.

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

Regarding ASOBO and their recent Q&A Twitch, I was puzzled to find out that after all all that mess about the development being stopped sue to an incontournable limitation imposed by the MFS SDK turned ou to be a rather simple and already available feature that the PMDG programmers simp+ly didn't know how to deal with !  Ridiculous to say the least !!!

Whatch from 00:53 on... where Sebastien explains what the "quirk" really was.... Laughable 🤣

Im soooo surprised. Been in MSFS since 95 and have seen all of Mr Randozzos behavior in that time. 

57 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

I'd rather take the word from professional developers than from a dev team that is still far off from any complex system simulation. 

Care for a friendly wager? Go to the PMDG forums and ask Robert if the SDK is too incomplete to make a study level airliner.

If he says yes, I'll buy your copy of either the NG3 or Fenix A320. If he says no, you buy me an NG3.

30 minutes ago, Flying-Hare said:

Phoenix still alive? For a long time there was no new information.

It’s Fenix - and yes, they are very much alive: 

 

I think Fenix are just getting their head down without all the hype etc, and my feeling is they will not announce anything about launch dates etc, until it's in the bag and very close to release.

On the other hand i could be totally wrong lol.

3 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

With all due respect for FBW and their amazing workt, how can Iceman say "there is no roadblock to study level aircraft", if neither he nor anyone else has been there yet for MSFS?
 

Because Fenix have also said there isn't anything blocking them at the moment, and I consider Fenix to be a proxy that supports what Iceman is saying. Aamir from Fenix gave an update after SU7 where he said the productivity of the Fenix team was doing very good, and it appears Fenix's productivity after SU7 is the polar opposite of PMDG, who have apparently suffered a setback after SU7.  Here are Aamir's exact words:

  Quote

We’re very happy with the direction of MSFS and its respective development tools – Sim Update 7 has improved our ability to quickly iterate new testing builds, and overall our development rate has accelerated significantly as new updates release for the title.

PMDG is using a different architecture than Fenix and PMDG is also targeting X-Box, while Fenix is not targeting X-Box.  So what Iceman said can be true.

 

 

Notwithstanding the differences in the two products, we also have to bear in mind that some of the difficulties developers encounter will be a bit cultural. An example of this, is the recommended sound packaging software which MSFS can utilise; it is quite commonly used among game developers, and ultimately it is more flexible, but it's different from what most developers of FSX and P3D aeroplanes have been used to when packaging their sounds, and so it requires someone to become familiar with a system which is new to them if producing things in-house, or to contract someone who is familiar with that software.

Conversely, a newly-minted developer has no previous methodology for production which they've got comfortable with, so they will tend to look at what is the recommended way to produce things for the new sim and say: 'so, it seems we have to do this, this, and this...', whereas an existing developer might be inclined to look at matters differently, see it as a problem, and perhaps say: 'this sucks, why can't we do it like we used to in the old sim?'. Not an insurmountable issue of course, and more cultural than an actual roadblock, but still an issue for a company which has its usual way of going about things which it has got comfortable with.

And of course the PMDG boss is nothing if not opinionated, which is okay, but it does mean he is occasionally inclined to be more vocal about such things on occasion than others might be, sometimes with justification, others times not so much.

Edited January 29, 20224 yr by Chock