Hi guys,

I know that there has been a thread debating the future of P3D already, but what about classics such as 707, 727, L-1011, Il-62?

It has been clear from the responses in this forum that most serious aviation simmers are going to stick with P3D, as MSFS is a mess and catered for gamers, with most payware developers going after that rollercoaster as they need to make money. However, at some point this will come to an end as the MSFS hype might die later this year or two years later.

Luckily we have great devs such as Leonardo SH with their MD-82/83/88, iFly 737 NG, FSL A320. However, the future looks grim for older classics as the majority of the users today wish to have planes flying today.

The last high fidelity addon for a 707/727 was from captain sim (same cannot be said for their glass cockpit airliners), and those are not compatible with P3D V4 or V5. Neither is the freeware high fidelity Project Tupolev 154B-2. The only classic study level airliner I can think of is the Tu-134 by Altynpilot which is still in active development.

Now Justflight has released some classics such as the trident, Aerosoft released a DC-8, but they are still nowhere near the standards of the Maddog for example.

Is there any realistic change that we might get a study level 707 or 727 at some point in the years to come? It is no longer possible to perform modern day realistic flights with only the classic navigation systems, meaning that they will have to come with retrofitted nav systems just like in the real world.

We fly in the sim as a hobby after all, and it is more rewarding actually having to do something during the flight than to rely on autopilot for most of the flight.

As the Tuy-154B-2 is only available for P3D V3, I had to jump ship and fly the MD-82 instead in P3D V5 to keep myself entertained. But it would be great to see a comeback of older jetliners. 

I'd love to see a good B727.

43 minutes ago, Ikarus280 said:

most serious aviation simmers are going to stick with P3D, as MSFS is a mess and catered for gamers, with most payware developers going after that rollercoaster as they need to make money. However, at some point this will come to an end as the MSFS hype might die later this year

That's an awful lot of supposition there...
We may feel strongly about the trials and tribulations of that other sim, the attitude of certain third party developers that have taken a very public stance on where their future lies, and how solid P3D is as a platform. The fact remains that sales for P3D products have significantly dried-up, which impacts what new projects will actually be started for P3D. (Edit: Drzewiecki Design posted the following comment: "at the moment P3D represents ca. 5% of our users.")

Even with the underdeveloped SDK and the instability issues, the opportunity cost of a building a new product for P3D compared to one for MSFS is far too high for many developers to contemplate.

In terms of classic airliners for P3D, the good news is that JustFlight continues to work on their A300 B4 and their 747 'Classic' (-100, -200, -200F variants), plus TFDi are working on an MD-11, both pax and -F variants.
 

Edited December 11, 20214 yr by F737NG
Quote added

I used to fly those old birds on FS9, now I turned my head to X-P

When I parallel FS9 and P4D, the most annoying thing is maintaining separate scenery lib, but for me, up to date airport layout is needed but not photo-like scenery, so I basically use what XP came with, that saves me a lot time.

At the start, I turn to XP for the most advanced aircraft-A350, but now it's mainly about 727, 742, A300/310, Concorde and Tu154 (also A346 then).

Since I didn't use same aircraft on different sim, somehow the translation didn't feels as bad as I thought, I cross fly on XP and P4D daily, the different on mouse control and keyboard layout seems didn't bother me anymore ...

I know OP is asking about P3D, but I just want address that fly 2 or even 3 sims at the same time maybe not as bad as one's initial thought, and there is plenty of 64bit classic jet right here right now. maybe give a try.

4 hours ago, F737NG said:

 (Edit: Drzewiecki Design posted the following comment: "at the moment P3D represents ca. 5% of our users.")

Thanks, that's very useful information on the current market situation. FYI, for people that want the source to this, I found the source at: https://drzewiecki-design.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=140&p=25109

 

6 hours ago, F737NG said:

Drzewiecki Design posted the following comment: "at the moment P3D represents ca. 5% of our users

I just wonder, if it is that bad (1/20), why do they keep prices still high and do not just sell as much as possible with extreme sales, like it is usual for other goods. Drzewiecki is not a good example for this statement, since they do good sales I think (50%), whereas Aerosoft keeps prices high, although they are officially no longer interested in P3D, same for Milviz, Captainsim. Maybe prices are based on server costs and credit card fees, rather than on the markets demand for a product, what I would expect. 

5 minutes ago, blaunarwal said:

I just wonder, if it is that bad (1/20), why do they keep prices still high and do not just sell as much as possible with extreme sales, like it is usual for other goods. Drzewiecki is not a good example for this statement, since they do good sales I think (50%), whereas Aerosoft keeps prices high, although they are officially no longer interested in P3D, same for Milviz, Captainsim. Maybe prices are based on server costs and credit card fees, rather than on the markets demand for a product, what I would expect. 

Probably because there are customer support costs. If they sold products for say, 1/3 of the price in a huge sale, but then the customer support overwhelms their support team and they need to hire more people for their support team, they can make a net loss in hiring more support people, and it doesn't justify lowering the price of their product.

Edited December 11, 20214 yr by abrams_tank

10 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Probably because there are customer support costs.

I thought about that. I would not mind, if they said, no support given, buy at your own risk, if it was really cheap. 

To come back to the issue of this thread, i don´t think there will be new classic airliners coming for P3D, which are not yet in published or coming soon. But a lot where already cancelled and diverted to the other platforms. Justflight has an A300 and 747 classic in development. Future will show, if they will ever be finished. I think an older jet in study level made from scratch is an illusion. We hardly get an easy airliner at the moment. The last publications where from Captansim the 737 classic, which is definitely not study level. 

Edited December 11, 20214 yr by blaunarwal

Some good well made study level old jets for P3D alas wishful thinking for P3D for the time being.

I can only think of one that makes the grade, that being the old CoolSky DC-9-30 which was nicely repurposed for P3D by Flight 1 and is still brilliant (if you really like complexity and fidelity). 

Still a step down and there is the JF/AH DC-8 (Which is being steadily sorted out to near study level by some diehard simmers - nothing public yet but coming along very nicely). Aersoft's DC-8 nearly fits the bill too. 

The ex CLS/JF DC-10 has also been substantially reworked again not quite study level but not far off it - see thread here on AVSIM P3D Forum about it but you have to do all the mod work to bring it into being. Very nice wide body now. 

As for Boeings - none really, no 707 or 727 or 737-200 , there is a niceport over of the Ruth 727 which looks very nice and performs well in P3D but is really for fun compared to the old CS 727. 

If you want a piston airliner then the PMDG DC-6 or the A2A both study level are fine in 5.3 by the way. 

Further away in time we get from this era of jets more unlikely it seems it will ever happen now anyways. These aeroplanes are all museum pieces now. Then again there is a lot of attraction for a developer to produce a dumbed now nicely looking simple aircraft for MSFS sure saves a lot of code work and gauge development. 

Don’t forget FS Labs Concorde is coming to P3D v4/5 probably next year now. Out of service for 18 years makes it a classic I suppose.

Speaking personally, I think that will be the definitive version across all flight sim platforms. Unless there’s a change of policy from FSL it will never appear in MSFS.

8 hours ago, Ikarus280 said:

As the Tuy-154B-2 is only available for P3D V3, I had to jump ship and fly the MD-82 instead in P3D V5 to keep myself entertained. But it would be great to see a comeback of older jetliners. 

Not quite...

There's a 154 under development for p3d v 4.5+ that can even be purchased as a WIP version (my experience would actually suggest against buying WIP products but that's a different matter)

Tu-154 Main (simuniqlab.com)

As has been said already JF are developing the A300 and 747 Classic still, the A300 shouldn't theoretically be too far off, the entire thing is already developed but pre-release bugfixing is taking them a very long time.

They also released a simulation of the 146 that I recently picked up in their Xmas Sale, haven't flown it much yet but it's a fun challenge to fly.

With the Concorde and MD11 coming soon as well I'm quite close to getting my classic 'fix' satisfied. Though I would love the chance to take a good 707 simulation on old BOAC routes from the 60s were that ever to appear on the market.

2 hours ago, coastaldriver said:

Still a step down and there is the JF/AH DC-8 (Which is being steadily sorted out to near study level by some diehard simmers - nothing public yet but coming along very nicely).

I would be very interested to hear more about this when the time is right. I enjoyed the Aerosoft DC8 and would love a -60 series freighter, part of the reason I'm looking forward to the 747 Classic so much is a desire to have a classic freight dog to fly around.

Updates on the JF 747 progress have sadly not appeared for some time now, and it’s been in development for several years which makes me worry for its future. Meanwhile a well received 747 classic has arrived on XP.

I personally love the P3D platform and don’t want to be pessimistic about  future aircraft, but I’m finding it hard not to be.

Edited December 11, 20214 yr by jon b

2 minutes ago, jon b said:

Updates on the JF 747 progress have sadly not appeared for some time now

True, and quite recently I have read (don't remember where) a JF official's statement of it being on hold.
A real pity. 747-200 was the first long-hauler I flew in real life (Alitalia LIRF->KJFK) and I have a huge sentiment for this amazing bird.

Waiting for Caravelle from Aeroplane Heaven - seems also to be last on the list... 😔