I'm just now finishing up my second around-the-world trip in MSFS. And the sim has taught me a valuable lesson about the world's population density -- namely, the world is mostly empty space. Even in highly-developed, densely-populated areas such as the United States, MSFS has revealed to me that only about 10% of the landmass has been developed and populated. (External geographical literature also confirms this 10% approximation.) In other words, in 2022, approximately 90% of our land, even in developed countries, is still pretty much the way it's been for millennia. MSFS can be a great educational tool.

 

 

 

And yet there appears to be no space to build affordable housing for the young people of many western countries. 

32 minutes ago, David Mills said:

MSFS can be a great educational tool.

Was actually thinking about that the other day - would make a great tool to teach geography, geology or meteorology in schools...

Now if we can only teach a little geography to the Flat Earth Society...   Speaking of which, did the early sea goers not notice the continuous curvature of the ocean way off in the distance?   

2 minutes ago, overspeed3 said:

Now if we can only teach a little geography to the Flat Earth Society...   Speaking of which, did the early sea goers not notice the continuous curvature of the ocean way off in the distance?   

But what about the Hollow Earther's and the Lizard People ??? 😄

4 hours ago, MarkW said:

And yet there appears to be no space to build affordable housing for the young people of many western countries. 

Well in where I am, Aus, specifically Sydney where housing is a mess, prices are ridiculous no matter where you go. The further west you go from the city yes it gets a little cheaper but I think the problem also lies in the younger generation shooting too high starting off. They don't want to head further out west and start with something simple... they want the city life the city house at the start yet they hate working. And good luck getting anything decent even at the 1 million mark 🙂 thats Sydney now, I think the median is at 1.4 million. Unreal. 

Edited April 19, 20224 yr by Ridvan Celik

25 minutes ago, Ridvan Celik said:

they want the city life the city house at the start yet they hate working

Way to over-generalize. Statistically, millennials work more hours and have more education than their parents did. People claim that the younger generations seems "entitled", but I think it's more like frustration. Their parents could buy houses back in the day for next to nothing, without a college degree. Loans? No problem. Most young people I know are incredibly hard working. 

1 hour ago, Ridvan Celik said:

but I think the problem also lies in the younger generation shooting too high starting off. They don't want to head further out west and start with something simple... they want the city life the city house at the start yet they hate working. 

Same thing I see happening in the US. We’ve coined a phrase in the states that says “everyone wants to get paid but nobody wants to work.” I’ve got a few entry level positions in my company that have been vacant for a while that are fairly easy jobs with good benefits, and a good way to get your foot in the company. The problem is, everyone I’ve interviewed wants like $80,000 starting off 😂😂 I then ask, how my do you make now? The answer is usually the same or less than what I’m offering, or they are currently unemployed, but yet they want $25,000 to $30,000 more than what I’m offering 🤷🏼‍♂️ 

The issue is not lack of land,  Even if you parcel off prime agricultural land and heritage natural areas there is plenty of land left over to build on.

The issue is the value of real estate has been disconnected from its worth as a commercial building or home to live in and instead is priced based purely on its speculative value as an investment.  

Edited April 19, 20224 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

2 hours ago, Ridvan Celik said:

Well in where I am, Aus, specifically Sydney where housing is a mess, prices are ridiculous no matter where you go. The further west you go from the city yes it gets a little cheaper but I think the problem also lies in the younger generation shooting too high starting off. They don't want to head further out west and start with something simple... they want the city life the city house at the start yet they hate working. And good luck getting anything decent even at the 1 million mark 🙂 thats Sydney now, I think the median is at 1.4 million. Unreal. 

I agree. Same problem in Auckland. 30 years ago I just didn't earn enough to buy anything in the city so we moved out into a rural area some 35 km from the city and commuted each day. I built my house, raised my kids and my wife and I still live there and we still commute. It was affordable then and it is still affordable now to any young person. Of course when I raise this I get the climate change argument that says we should all live in high density housing close to transports hubs. But if that means unaffordable and sub par housing, which is does, fisrt I dont want to live there and second, I still cant afford to anyway! Young people don't seem to mind this crammed living arrangement as they just want the vibrancy of inner city life while at the same time intensely objecting to having to work to pay for it!! Meanwhile, high intensity living in crammed cities is Mr and Mrs Covid's dream location and the concrete and human activity ensures our cities are much hotter than our rural areas and thus require a huge air conditioning overhead.      

Anyway, good post David because technology including wireless and space based internet, aviation and electricity grids including wind farms, mean we can spread our wings a bit more without feeling like we are squeezing the life out of the planet. In your two world trips, you have seen there is plenty of room for all of us still.     

 

Cheers

Terry

Edited April 19, 20224 yr by Lord Farringdon

2 hours ago, Bdub22 said:

Way to over-generalize. Statistically, millennials work more hours and have more education than their parents did. People claim that the younger generations seems "entitled", but I think it's more like frustration. Their parents could buy houses back in the day for next to nothing, without a college degree. Loans? No problem. Most young people I know are incredibly hard working. 

Before you think I don't have any merit to my post: 

I am 30 so I'm somewhat still considered young and two I started a business at the age of 20 without the help of mum and dad because well.. they couldn't. The company is now multi national, not a large company but it has grown. So I do have an idea of work trends and employee trends. 

While I agree, people close to or at my age are in the batch of hard workers, I would say we are the last. Like others have mentioned its not just an issue here in Australia, the younger generation have really become lazy and entitled. My friends circle in business almost have had similar experiences when it comes to hiring younger workers, they ask for days off now because three days of work is affecting their mental state, if three days of work affects someone's mental state, I should've been gone up there a long time ago. They also want more then they can bring to the table.

1 hour ago, cmpbellsjc said:

Same thing I see happening in the US. We’ve coined a phrase in the states that says “everyone wants to get paid but nobody wants to work.” I’ve got a few entry level positions in my company that have been vacant for a while that are fairly easy jobs with good benefits, and a good way to get your foot in the company. The problem is, everyone I’ve interviewed wants like $80,000 starting off 😂😂 I then ask, how my do you make now? The answer is usually the same or less than what I’m offering, or they are currently unemployed, but yet they want $25,000 to $30,000 more than what I’m offering 🤷🏼‍♂️ 

Exactly this!!

Personally, I think the younger generation want to drink champagne on a beer budget, not only drink champagne, but drink the most expensive one.... because the cheap ones are "ew"... their friends said so... also don't want to walk up to the bar and order it... delivered please.  < this last sentence pretty much sums up the younger generation IMO.  

In saying all that, the housing problem here in AUS is pretty unrealistic even for the people who want to start at the bottom. I wont dive into it, but when you have old mate come and offer 2-300k above the asking price, which lifts up the price of the whole area, then fly back to his or her country get some more cash with next to nothing interest, come back and do it all over again for years on end... its not hard to see where the problem started. But lets not get into politics. 

Edited April 19, 20224 yr by Ridvan Celik

9 hours ago, David Mills said:

I'm just now finishing up my second around-the-world trip in MSFS. And the sim has taught me a valuable lesson about the world's population density -- namely, the world is mostly empty space. Even in highly-developed, densely-populated areas such as the United States, MSFS has revealed to me that only about 10% of the landmass has been developed and populated. (External geographical literature also confirms this 10% approximation.) In other words, in 2022, approximately 90% of our land, even in developed countries, is still pretty much the way it's been for millennia. MSFS can be a great educational tool.

 

 

 

I came to the same conclusion on my own RTW trip

4 hours ago, Bdub22 said:

Way to over-generalize. Statistically, millennials work more hours and have more education than their parents did. People claim that the younger generations seems "entitled", but I think it's more like frustration. Their parents could buy houses back in the day for next to nothing, without a college degree. Loans? No problem. Most young people I know are incredibly hard working. 

Some very out of touch people in here....some pretty disgusting generalizations stated.😒

Edited April 19, 20224 yr by blueshark747

11 hours ago, David Mills said:

I'm just now finishing up my second around-the-world trip in MSFS. And the sim has taught me a valuable lesson about the world's population density -- namely, the world is mostly empty space. 

Hi David, you’re quite right. I haven’t done a round the world trip in MSFS yet...but in the course of the last forty years I do seem to have flown all around the world irl.

From the UK, if you fly to the Far East, Australasia or North America the world from flight level thirty six is essentially ocean followed by vast stretches of forest, mountain, tundra and desert.

From the air, Europe and parts of the Far East would seem the most heavily populated areas but what is always striking to me is how green the UK still is from the air - despite our best efforts to smother it in roads and concrete.

As to how the rest of this thread is progressing; it’s a familiar Avsim theme; it’s all the fault of those pesky kids and their consoles 🧐!

Edited April 19, 20224 yr by DD_Arthur

4 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

The issue is not lack of land,  Even if you parcel off prime agricultural land and heritage natural areas there is plenty of land left over to build on.

The issue is the value of real estate has been disconnected from its worth as a commercial building or home to live in and instead is priced based purely on its speculative value as an investment.  

Exactly, my comment was tongue in cheek, high real estate value have been driven by very low interest rates for 20 years plus government regulations on zoning laws.