Gone fishing 🎣 

 

No

51 minutes ago, sanh said:

The key part of what i am saying - I think a lot of people don't buy addons like myself so rely on the core sim improving with new features to keep us entertained.

I think people are rightly confused with this point.  The core sim experience is constantly improving in many regards with world/sim updates every month.  As others have pointed out, MSFS is currently the most advance and best looking flight sim to date, so if that bores you I can't understand how flight simulation is for you - you haven't got the time or money to learn complex aircraft, you don't want to buy any addons to improve the experience - I'm at a loss to understand your point.

2 hours ago, sanh said:

However, as far as the core sim goes it hasn't changed much. Where are the new core sim features? New advanced weather? ATC? Windscreen wipers working? Remember when a new version came out every 2 years of the legacy series with significant advances?

Honestly, that sounds pretty vague. We all know MSFS is not a perfect simulator and lacks certain features, but none of the ones you mentioned I consider 'game breaker' or something that should be at the top priority of things to fix/improve.

 

18 minutes ago, garlicbread11 said:

Gone fishing 🎣 

Did that this weekend.  Took the Grumman Goose up through British Columbia on that Bush trip it ships with.  have not had to resort to cheating and using a GPS yet, though did need to pull out some real world maps at one point. rather fun

2 hours ago, sanh said:

The key part of what i am saying - I think a lot of people don't buy addons like myself so rely on the core sim improving with new features to keep us entertained. When that starts to drop off we become bored. I have no plans to go to another sim or leave. Just have to wait until it does improve in that aspect. Not many who hold views like mine would come to a forum like this but there you go!

I fundamentally don't understand what you mean by the core sim "dropping off", because it's actually been improving.

If you mean new toys and features - some of that stuff takes longer to create, but they've still been releasing their bi-monthly world updates and stuff.  The sim isn't even two years old yet,, so with that in mind I think the volume of new stuff they've added has been awesome (even if it often came with new headaches at the time).

Getting bored with a flight sim unless it comes with a steady stream of bells and whistles just seems odd, I guess.  Especially as you note that you don't buy add-ons, which is 99% of the "bells and whistles" market for sims lol.

Asobo themselves have clearly decided that delivering big new things like default seasons or helicopters etc. with all haste should take a backseat to more carefully improving and fixing the systems that are already present in the sim, which I think is the right path.  With previous iterations of MSFS those big new features would've been part of a new release you'd buy.  With that in mind, maybe go buy a couple of add-ons that enhance the experience in ways you want.

Edited May 16, 20224 yr by Scottoest

1 hour ago, Scottoest said:

Getting bored with a flight sim unless it comes with a steady stream of bells and whistles just seems odd, I guess.  Especially as you note that you don't buy add-ons, which is 99% of the "bells and whistles" market for sims lol.

Asobo specifically stated, back in August 2020, that a lot of the base sim was intentionally under-featured, to leave room for 3PD people to do their thing.  MSFS2020 was always intended as a skeleton to hang addons on.

They did backtrack on that a little when there were so many complaints about the under-featured stock G1000 they realised it was not even slightly fit for purpose. Hence the reason they contracted the Working Title team to develop the Nxi .

If Asobo have failed at anything, it is making the SDK more accessible and useable, causing huge issues for the very developers they hoped would be fleshing out the sim with lots of freeware and payware.

@ the OP, if you are not inclined to pay for addons, which is fine - have you at least explored all the amazing freeware that is kicking about? 

Edited May 16, 20224 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

2 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

Asobo specifically stated, back in August 2020, that a lot of the base sim was intentionally under-featured, to leave room for 3PD people to do their thing.  MSFS2020 was always intended as a skeleton to hang addons on.

I do generally agree. 

However Asobo has made it clear that they have locked out SDK for some other key areas of potential 3PD development.  Avionics (please do not refer to Working Title as Asobo brought that in house and so far significant production is limited to the G1000Nxi) and weather/weather textures are two that are undeniable. They have made statements on both of those multiple times. Do not recollect if they have made such a statement on ATC/ATIS/AWOS but it also needs major attention.

Key phrase: "not planned".  In print.

I highly value PMS and TDS who both appear to have figured at least some of it out despite lack of SDK support, AFAIK.

Core MSFS ongoing development has been like a bit of white water rafting.  Or Ying Yang.  Much in the way of progress has been offset by simultaneous backslides.  

9 hours ago, sanh said:

I could get a copy of the original 2020 release and compare it with today's version  and visually or functionality wise it would be almost identical.

People will confirm : 
original 2020 release must be updated to the latest version to be able to fly -> no difference after the update because same version !

If correct, you cannot compare original 2020 release and today's version.

 

Edited May 16, 20224 yr by ctdlg

10 hours ago, sanh said:

It's now been a couple of years since MSFS was released but the sim largely is the same as it was at release. Yes I know the world scenery updates is something and 3PDs have come out with new planes. 

However, as far as the core sim goes it hasn't changed much. Where are the new core sim features? New advanced weather? ATC? Windscreen wipers working? Remember when a new version came out every 2 years of the legacy series with significant advances?

I could get a copy of the original 2020 release and compare it with today's version  and visually or functionality wise it would be almost identical.

Considering nearly 200 people are working on it I was hoping for more.

I am becoming a little bored with MSFS. I hope they add some new core features soon rather than leave the core sim as is and just add new scenery or packs like top gun.

For VR yes it has stalled, in fact since SU2 when it was introduced it's not budged. Sure VR controller support was added, but that was it. The toolbar windows have regressed, bad anti aliasing on said windows since SU5, Shimmering introduced in I think the same update, the clouds visually have regressed again in SU5. Bugs not dealt with, only one aforementioned wished for item added.....if anything it's gone backwards.

Performance may of improved, but using the Toolkit made by Modders in their free time it's hard to gauge as that does a great job of improving this area.

So whilst I disagree the main core of the Sim has stalled, VR hasn't even properly started yet and it's frustrating as IMO Asobo haven't got a clue about VR development. They never wanted it in the first place, they caved to community pressure, they released a half baked attempt and as above barely touched it since. They keep  spouting the same rhetoric every Q&A that they use VR and it's in their plans, but words are meaningless when actions are very clearly needed.

Edited May 16, 20224 yr by MarcG

Have there been any updates to the ATC engine (or are in the works?) I don‘t fly online, so this is quite important to me. It doesn‘t have to be an ATC simulator but surely MSFS should be able to do better than P3D/FSX?

The only funny thing is: each time those valid questions of the TS are asked, they do not get answered but instead the whole marketing blabla of Asobo gets recited. Annoying. If you actually DO a comparison of the sim now against release and ignore the addons and the world updates, what is left? Some CFD aspects added to some (not all!) of the default planes, prop simulation added to some (not all!) of the default planes, micromanagement of the ATC, a bugged METAR implementation, navdata updates and... well, and nothing much more. Fact. Still no physical water interaction, still no proper cloud variety, still quiet buggy weather in general, ridicously wrong snow coverage with roads still totay white, still no functional AI traffic system, still ridiculous bugs for thesground equipment, no proper implementation of DX12, no seasons and and and. A quick look on the bug list and wishlist reveals many things still open...

Verdict: the TS is basically right. And none of the marketing blabla answers so far DID actually answer his question: what does MSFS do better today in regard of the core sim elements compared to the release version?

@ankh I think you made my original point better than I did in the post above this one 

Also can we keep the "X" word out of the thread. Start a new thread if you want to rehash that old boring sim v sim garbage again. My question is specifically for MSFS. I couldn't care less what another sim is doing.

Edited May 16, 20224 yr by sanh

I've just got a Déjà-vu:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/617463-what-have-you-done-in-600-days-j/

Lots of answers. No need to start a new thread.

Kind regards, Michael

Ill just stick to ATC in this post, but isnt it a tradition that it has always been very basic at best. I wonder has someone raised this with ms in the past or is it assumed that people who want good atc will go ahead and purchase 3rd party programs.

Edited May 16, 20224 yr by icewater5

1 hour ago, AnkH said:

Fact. Still no physical water interaction, still no proper cloud variety, still quiet buggy weather in general, ridicously wrong snow coverage with roads still totay white, still no functional AI traffic system, still ridiculous bugs for thesground equipment, no proper implementation of DX12, no seasons and and and. A quick look on the bug list and wishlist reveals many things still open...

And this is why I agreed with the OP's initial point. Spot on. Absolutely things that *should* have been top of the list, 2 years in, are still left hanging. I have BIG expectations for DX12.

Of course, we could have a poll, and include ice cream?