28 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

People don't remember 'shady customers', Whatever that may be. They remember poor customer service. 

My bad. Shady customers = thieves.

People stealing scenery/aircraft, either by trading (in the example I gave) or illicit download somewhere.

Edited October 24, 20223 yr by blingthinger

I feel bad for developers like this, who were obviously making a lot of money on X-Plane sales due to the seriously lacking default weather in XP11.

So now they are in a difficult position where they have to try to bring their product into the current dominate simulator, MSFS, and it simply can't compete with default weather.

It's likely because a lot of these addons are one-man-shops and they are up against hundreds of skilled developers at Asobo making sure everything is working as it should.

Either way, I am highly skeptical of any weather addon at this point that says it can do a better job than the effort that's been poured into the default.

The sad part about all this, so many developers and YTubers alike just carry on with this blip of negative social media airtime and don't straighten up to rectify the negative course. This may be one example where the consequences are beyond recovery. Just so bad for the people that buy this stuff as a result of misinformation and dishonesty for financial or personal gain.

A good example of good customer service and delivery:

Mario Noriega Designs has the jet-trainer C22-J. It was less than 10 dollars and upon release there were a few issues with sounds/textures etc but the developer went ahead and fixed these.It is still one of my most favorite planes in the simulator. Part of the reasoning is that it's reasonably priced but the developer at least updated it and fixed some issues from the beginning. Not a cash grab. In fact, they even offered a 50% discount on those who bought it for p3d version 4. A hidden gem of MSFS, in my opinion. Really fun to fly for VFR and analog lovers.

I wish developers would pay attention to these forums and see these examples. Unfortunately, I think we also complain way too much. Obviously includes me. So much to be thankful for in these times as the hobby we enjoy has changed quite a bit in the last few years.

 

20 minutes ago, Gulfstream said:

developers at Asobo making sure everything is working as it should

Must resist urge to make a sarcastic comment. Must resist... 😉 

14 minutes ago, Gulfstream said:

I feel bad for developers like this

 

14 minutes ago, Gulfstream said:

Either way, I am highly skeptical of any weather addon at this point that says it can do a better job than the effort that's been poured into the default.

I feel the same on both counts. MSFS default weather is not perfect, but it is very good; far more often than not I find it is pretty much exactly what is reported, and it looks quite good. Yes, it could be more accurate and yes it could look better with more variation in clouds, etc. But I actually do not feel like I need a separate weather program to improve the weather. I don't think the cost-benefit analysis would justify it and I know that Asobo continues to work on weather and I am confident it will continue to improve. 

But it is unfortunate that developers that worked on weather in earlier simulators really cannot do much in MSFS; partly because it actually does look and perform quite well by default and partly because as many have said Asobo is not going to provide access to the weather data and structure. It is kind of the end of the line, as it is unlikely either P3D or X-plane have a very large base of customers who will pay for these things. I must say I am impressed with how REX has pivoted; their seasons add on is great and their responsiveness and support has been very good. And they have made an attempt with weather that seems to meet the needs of some users, which is great.  This was a pretty big change in the market and for some developers navigating this requires more than technical ability in one area but some imagination and willingness to look around at what is needed, at what could be done well, and to learn how to provide this.

18 minutes ago, Cognita said:

I feel the same on both counts. MSFS default weather is not perfect, but it is very good; far more often than not I find it is pretty much exactly what is reported, and it looks quite good. Yes, it could be more accurate and yes it could look better with more variation in clouds, etc. But I actually do not feel like I need a separate weather program to improve the weather. I don't think the cost-benefit analysis would justify it and I know that Asobo continues to work on weather and I am confident it will continue to improve. 

I was going to make a similar comment at the very beginning of this thread. I asked myself "am I missing something?". No, I don't think so. Live weather is so great in my books and will only continue to be refined!. 

Edited October 24, 20223 yr by Doering

I bought it using the discount.

The awful and unrealistic gusts are gone, landing in the Fenix is now not a battle of the Auto Thrust vs the wind. There are gusts, but not 180/22 - 347/55 180/12 - 90/10 - 91/24 situation going on in all 3 seconds. I really dont get why people have to be negative about it. It is also Version 1 and the devs made no bones about that. To write it off as useless is just crazy. But anyway the toxicity is normal now. 

 

MSFS does not publish APIs for weather integration. And they have always been very clear on that. It is not planned and never will be. You may like it or not. 

XEnviro cannot guarantee any support. It can break every second whenever MSFS changes something on the server infrastructure or pushes out an update.

So why do they still bring something like this to the market? They can only promise and oversell. It is a shame.

On top of that, MS is committed to improve long term. Maybe not as fast as we would like but it already shines in many areas. Use a glider in SU11 Beta with thermals, it is just stunning. Miles ahead of what we ever had in the past.

14 hours ago, BobFS88 said:

And how would you know that since you are not part of that community. A significant number of user don't use steam and prefer to get it directly from LR which is why you see an larger presence. How I know because I am part of that community. You can make up what ever want doesn't make so.

This is why I said this when I posted those numbers: "assuming more XP users buy XP 12 from the LR website, what's important above is the comparison of the peak XP 12 users relative to XP 11 users in Steam"

Seems like you conveniently ignored this part that I wrote.  So let's go with your assumption that more users buy XP 12 from the LR website than Steam.  That's fine.  If we use your logic, then more users also buy XP 11 from the LR website than Steam (please don't suddenly use some type of weird logic and claim that more users buy XP 11 from Steam, that would make your logic inconsistent).

What those SteamDB numbers say is that compared to XP 11, XP 12 is doing poorly, relative to XP 11.  That was my point when I posted those numbers, that XP 12 is doing pretty bad, with respect to peak XP 11 user numbers on Steam. 

And of course, you can say that XP 12 is in beta and that the number of users may grow from here. I can also say that when XP 11 gained its peak user base after release, it was competing against P3D at the time.  In hindsight, P3D was not a strong competitor for XP 11.  How do we know P3D was not a strong competitor? Because within 1.5 years of MSFS's release, P3D's home market was decimated, leading to many, many, P3D developers for the home market leaving P3D for MSFS. 

This time around, XP 12 is not competing against a weak competitor like P3D. It's competing against a strong competitor in MSFS. So yes, it's possible that XP 12 numbers may grow once it leaves beta.  But it won't be easy for XP 12 user numbers to grow this time, because the competitor (MSFS) is a much stronger competitor this time around.

Edited October 25, 20223 yr by abrams_tank

3 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

This time around, XP 12 is not competing against a weak competitor like P3D. It's competing against a strong competitor in MSFS. So yes, it's possible that XP 12 numbers may grow once it leaves beta.  But it won't be easy for XP 12 user numbers to grow this time, because the competitor (MSFS) is a much stronger competitor this time around.

Well, I'm glad I always travel against the stream 🙂

I've actually dropped MFS for now, and am back into X-Plane, now XP12, not because I follow market numbers / sales, but because I follow features of the flight simulation platform, like flight dynamics and systems detail and quality of modelling, weather modelling, ATC ...

Was never an xEnviro user, and I don't believe I will be for MFS or XP12 ( yes, I intend to try MFS again when their Glider tittle get's available.... ).

Meanwhile satisfied with default weather in XP12, just as I was in MFS which I find very competent already in that area, even if with it's problems here & there... 

Edited October 25, 20223 yr by jcomm

22 minutes ago, jcomm said:

 XP12, ATC ...
 

XP12 has proper ATC now?

17 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

XP12 has proper ATC now?

Compared to MSFS: yes! They really improved the ATC in XP12 up to the point that one might buy XP12 just in order to get some simple to use and decent ATC. Note I said 'might' because the updated ATC really is the only thing that attracts me in XP12 so no, I won't switch. 😉 But anyway, Asobo should have a look at the XP12 ATC and learn from it.

Is this thread now about XP12 vs MSFS or xE? Folks, why on every discussion we are bringing this topic up? Let's focus on the main topic please.

4 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

This is why I said this when I posted those numbers: "assuming more XP users buy XP 12 from the LR website, what's important above is the comparison of the peak XP 12 users relative to XP 11 users in Steam"

When you post screenshots like that, it is to get quick attention which sensationalize your point, not the fine print at the bottom. That what people see and don't care about the the declamer below if it does not fit there biases. I just call out the false narrative that is use to the justify why xEnviro move into MSFS marketplace which we now know isn't the case. Again it does not tell the whole story of its user interest coming from an gaming website.

 

4 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

What those SteamDB numbers say is that compared to XP 11, XP 12 is doing poorly, relative to XP 11.  That was my point when I posted those numbers, that XP 12 is doing pretty bad, with respect to peak XP 11 user numbers on Steam. 

And of course, you can say that XP 12 is in beta and that the number of users may grow from here. I can also say that when XP 11 gained its peak user base after release, it was competing against P3D at the time.

Yeah I say beta because it is and the reason it is, because many people don't want to be involved in beta testing a paid product, they would rather wait until it's all done. I don't blame them but it should not be viewed as a consequence to its market position against an already release product.   

4 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

This time around, XP 12 is not competing against a weak competitor like P3D. It's competing against a strong competitor in MSFS. So yes, it's possible that XP 12 numbers may grow once it leaves beta.  But it won't be easy for XP 12 user numbers to grow this time, because the competitor (MSFS) is a much stronger competitor this time around.

No X-plane is not competing with Microsoft, remember, they said, they are diverging from Microsoft, pretty much going their own way and because of it, people have found new interest in a much different way than most of the folk you talk to and enjoying free from all the concerns that never seems to end around here, DLSS, performance, flight modeling, season, ATC, Services updates, other things that stays on the minds.