7 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

Dgeil Translates to 'Awesome' in Google translate, but maybe it has a NSFW filter on it!  

If someone is geil, he is horny. If something is geil it is awesome. 🙂

I bought and quite like it.  I find it nothing mind-blowing to be honest but it has a lovely cockpit and is nice once up in the air. 

I too was seeing the yawing in cruise.  I'm someone who uses lots of key assignments as I really hate using the mouse for anything in flight sims.  So already had keys set up for rudder trim left and right.  You can balance it out nicely.

Don't know if it's realistic to have to trim the rudder on a PC-12 with a yaw damper though.  Watched a few irl videos on YouTube and never saw any pilot trimming for yaw in the cruise.

'British Avgeek' stated "it may just be one of the most detailed single engine prop planes in MSFS", in his video with the PC-12 yesterday.   😶   .... he got some stick in the comments!   It definitely isn't.  It's a relatively good initial release.  Nothing more, nothing less.  When it has a functional tablet for weights & balance etc (not just an interface for the Sky4sim thing), it'll be a lot better.   I think the flight handling characteristics need a tweak too.    It could be really good. Certainly better than it is.     But honestly, there's nothing groundbreaking about it.   Unless you consider a flushing toilet and lots of animated cupboards in the cabin as groundbreaking.    I'll finish by saying that it is definitely worth 25 EUR.   And as my last MSFS purchase was 40 EUR on something completely unusable, I'm pretty happy.

Edited December 6, 20232 yr by JYW

4 minutes ago, JYW said:

I'm someone who uses lots of key assignments as I really hate using the mouse for anything in flight sims. 

This could be of interest to you:

https://flightsim.to/file/65166/sws-pc-12-streamdeck-xl-profile-aao-scripts
 

thanks to @guenseli

2 minutes ago, polosim said:

This could be of interest to you:

https://flightsim.to/file/65166/sws-pc-12-streamdeck-xl-profile-aao-scripts
 

thanks to @guenseli

It certainly is, thank you.

@guenseli is a legend / god in my eyes.  There are so many planes that I wouldn't have enjoyed if it weren't for his countless AAO scripts.   HJET for example, where the standards key assignments for NAV, VS and a few others didn't work.

45 minutes ago, Purr said:

In addition to the bugs noted so far, my experience was the elevator and elevator trim forces are lacking authority. I changed my sensitivities significantly which helped somewhat but the elevator trim seems very slow / underpowered to react. I'd be holding my thumb on trim for 5 seconds, sometimes more, just for a small trim effect. When more major trim changes needed (eg. flaps), it was so slow and minor that I doubted it was even trimming (it was). This should be easy to adjust but some of these fairly basic flight control characteristics not being tended to before release is pretty disappointing for all the hype generated. I'm still confident they will fix however.

The pitch response is correct, knowing from experience; three of us were flown in a PC-12 in Lausanne where we timed control responses and performance manoeuvres. Plus we spent five 16h days in the sim with instruction. The elevator trim takes 42 seconds end-to-end and the rudder trim 28. Timings and effect are as close as we could get them.

One area that suffers is the rudder relief and yaw damper. Because of MSFS AP limitations we can't have full authority because it will disconnect it, so it is less coordinated than it should be. IRL the yaw damper is able to coordinate better but is still slow and that is so the pilots can overpower it if they need to.

12 minutes ago, A320_SX ALX said:

The pitch response is correct, knowing from experience; three of us were flown in a PC-12 in Lausanne where we timed control responses and performance manoeuvres. Plus we spent five 16h days in the sim with instruction. The elevator trim takes 42 seconds end-to-end and the rudder trim 28. Timings and effect are as close as we could get them.

One area that suffers is the rudder relief and yaw damper. Because of MSFS AP limitations we can't have full authority because it will disconnect it, so it is less coordinated than it should be. IRL the yaw damper is able to coordinate better but is still slow and that is so the pilots can overpower it if they need to.

Okay thanks for this addtional context and info....every aircraft for sure will be different. Clearly you've studied it, but I would say that in MSFS, it feels very underwhelming trim effectiveness that would seem very challenging in the real aircraft for any major pitch / power changes. 

19 minutes ago, A320_SX ALX said:

The pitch response is correct, knowing from experience; three of us were flown in a PC-12 in Lausanne where we timed control responses and performance manoeuvres. Plus we spent five 16h days in the sim with instruction. The elevator trim takes 42 seconds end-to-end and the rudder trim 28. Timings and effect are as close as we could get them.

This is reassuring. One thing I can't stand with some MSFS aircraft are ludicrous trim speeds. It makes trimming very difficult or impossible when the trim speed is too fast and if you can't effectively trim you can't effectively fly and enjoy it as far as I'm concerned. Constant twitching up and down, especially with the limited pitch some yokes offer.

As an after thought, I think the ideal solution to trimming in a sim is to do what you guys have done and have the bang-on real trimming speed that is marked on a slider that the user can also adjust to their preference.

Failing that, I'll take the carefully measured movement you speak of.

I'm looking forward to getting my hands on this one, probably after Christmas now. I've been on a bit of a turboprop kick the last 3 weeks.

36 minutes ago, A320_SX ALX said:

The pitch response is correct, knowing from experience; three of us were flown in a PC-12 in Lausanne where we timed control responses and performance manoeuvres. Plus we spent five 16h days in the sim with instruction. The elevator trim takes 42 seconds end-to-end and the rudder trim 28. Timings and effect are as close as we could get them.

One area that suffers is the rudder relief and yaw damper. Because of MSFS AP limitations we can't have full authority because it will disconnect it, so it is less coordinated than it should be. IRL the yaw damper is able to coordinate better but is still slow and that is so the pilots can overpower it if they need to.

Slow trims can be a pain but similar to your experience a king air c90a i flew for quite a few years the elevator trim was so slow sometimes i'd grab the trim wheel and do in manually. Probably a reason it was designed that way but i was never told but once you've had a run-away elevator trim in the rw, ifr, single pilot, (it happened to me about 15 years ago) you'd appreciate a slow trim motor. When it happened to me it could not be stopped except by pulling the circuit breaker even though there were several other ways it should have been stoppable. There was no traffic right above me and after explaining the +/-500' unplanned climb atc said nothing more about it. I imagine more than a few PC12 are flown single pilot so a slow trim motor could be a good thing.

Ok, I'm going to revisit my initial view of the PC-12 above.   After a second very enjoyable flight I'd say it's better than I indicated in my post above.   One thing I never mentioned is that the sounds are really superb.  Lovely satisfying switches, thumps and clunks.   And whilst I've never been in a real PC-12, it certainly sounds like a PT-6 and again, is very satisfying to hear in the air (and on start up, which sounds better than any other turbo-prop aircraft I've heard starting in MSFS).

The amount of animated areas is well above average for most MSFS aircraft. Eg, all the round vents can be rotated, etc.  CBs are also fully functional

On my first flight, the aircraft wanted to dart off the runway to the left, even with full left rudder deflection - I know now that that's because I hadn't set the T/O rudder trim to the right.

I really like it and would say it's a pretty considerable step up from the Carenado version.

Things that I don't like:-

• Liveries. Sorry but this is poor.  For each of the 4 varients, you get one operator livery (eg. Safari Air), then just a plane white pax version and cargo version.  That's it.   Not a single, nice, generic 'private' livery scheme. Just a really white (more unpainted style than a white scheme), plain texture. It really doesn't show off the high quality of the model.
• The functions of the KAS297 altitude selector are not assigned to default MSFS commands (for altitude +/- and vertical speed +/-).  Some other AP modes also don't work with standard assignments.  The AP itself seems to perform well.
• The pilot sunshade is a real p.i.t.a, in that the plane loads with it down.  I'm clicking like mad to raise it up (it can't be dragged) but then the windshield cover keeps popping on and off, because it's clickspot is so close to that of the sunshade's.   Then, when I head up to the overhead panel, that bleedin' sunshade is now blocking the entire left side of the overhead! I'd tear it off, if it wasn't a simulated plane 😆

I think that's it for me on negatives.  I'd really recommend it for 25 EUR if you like the PC-12 or turbo-prop singles in general. It has a good immersion factor.

I think with an update or two it could have really great potential.

Edited December 7, 20232 yr by JYW

14 minutes ago, JYW said:

I think that's it for me on negatives.  I'd really recommend it for 25 EUR if you like the PC-12 or turbo-prop singles in general. It has a good immersion factor.

I concur pretty much all around. And like you, my first flight was…meh.  I was ready to put it aside until after the patch but decided to give it a mulligan and now understanding the ins and outs a bit better…I’m starting to really like this plane.

-B

So what interesting about PC-12 is that rudder interlink with yoke and so sensitivity of that changes as airspeed build up during take off. So that why most of us suck when using all stick and rudder "more right ridder" technique. I practiced a bit and seems things getting better with take off.

As far as airplane skids that is new realistic feature of Su14. One occasion my student skids 172 during take of roll when over correcting. I've been lucky not to get to serous incident but I've seen other flight school student flipped airplane after loosing dictational control by overcompensating and skidding. I even saw once private jet slammed on brake skidded sideway at the end of runway and fell of the edge right wing down. After that we all had to do LAND AND HOLD SHORT Ops aka LAHSO LOL   

Am I reading wrong or is this plane more expensive on Contrail then at the Simworks site.

Is buying directly from SimWorks a good idea.

 

Ron

15 minutes ago, Ron Lefebvre said:

Am I reading wrong or is this plane more expensive on Contrail then at the Simworks site.

Is buying directly from SimWorks a good idea.

 

Ron

I checked out the prices and found SWS ($36.55) the slightest cheaper than Inibuilds ($36.67) and Contrail ($37.16) after converting to CDN$. Besides, I would rather give my money directly to the developer.

Edited December 7, 20232 yr by TomCYYZ

FYI there is a new version out

Quote

 

An update for the PC-12 was just released. To get the new version, go to your account page and redownload the plane. Remember to uninstall the previous version before installing the new one.

Check the full changelog below:

— Installer - Fixed incorrect installation of TDS GTNXi version
— PC-12+PMS: Fixed INOP DirectTo & Home buttons om GTN750
—  Fixed artifacts on GTN glass surfaces
— Corrected checklist PDF

 

 

4 hours ago, Ron Lefebvre said:

Am I reading wrong or is this plane more expensive on Contrail then at the Simworks site.

Is buying directly from SimWorks a good idea.

 

Ron

In our website the price is tax-inclusive because we don't pay re-seller commissions and can keep it low.

Most other shops add tax on top of the base price. We used to do it this way too, but it is simpler for the customer -they pay what they see.

@JYW the sun visor can be easily used with the scroll wheel, it only has 10 positions. Because it is indeed a nuisance, click its pivot point on the ceiling and it will automatically be stowed to neutral. Thank SimAcoustics for the idea he gave me. 🙂

Edited December 7, 20232 yr by A320_SX ALX
Sun visor hint