Just read some very interesting insight from Matt Nischan at the official forum:

Quote

Just some more information from the team here, the improved ground resolution is primarily for removing some edge cases of contact point to gound contact, in the circumstances where previously the resolution would cause some jitter of the contact point alternating between being in contact and not in contact, for example, like if you’ve seen a helicopter skid jitter a bit when first making contact with the ground or your plane jitter when flipping over, edge cases like that.

However, without the parameters specified in the airplane flight model configuration, there is no change in the behavior of the ground handling model itself. Those parameters must be present and tuned to achieve a change in ground handling.

 

Edited February 16, 20242 yr by Cpt_Piett

21 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

Ya it's a bit confusing, but as Dutch (of Milviz) reported above and also some others about the PMDG, it looks like a subset of the ground handling improvements benefits *all* aircraft? But to fully take advantage of all the ground handling improvements in SU15 the aircraft devs need to implement/enable and tune the 5 new FM parameters for their aircraft. At least that's what I'm getting.
 

Matt Nischan gave a clarification on the new ground handling in comment at the official MSFS forum:

 

Quote

Hello,

Just some more information from the team here, the improved ground resolution is primarily for removing some edge cases of contact point to gound contact, in the circumstances where previously the resolution would cause some jitter of the contact point alternating between being in contact and not in contact, for example, like if you’ve seen a helicopter skid jitter a bit when first making contact with the ground or your plane jitter when flipping over, edge cases like that.

However, without the parameters specified in the airplane flight model configuration, there is no change in the behavior of the ground handling model itself. Those parameters must be present and tuned to achieve a change in ground handling.

Sounds like all the parameters must be specified. So it looks like there isn't a ground handling change that universally affects all the planes in this Sim Update 15. The 3rd party devs need to include the parameters to take advantage of the ground handling changes, or else the plane doesn't benefit from it. At least that is my reading of Matt's comment.

11 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Just read some very interesting insight from Matt Nischan at the official forum:

”Just some more information from the team here, the improved ground resolution is primarily for removing some edge cases of contact point to gound contact, in the circumstances where previously the resolution would cause some jitter of the contact point alternating between being in contact and not in contact, for example, like if you’ve seen a helicopter skid jitter a bit when first making contact with the ground or your plane jitter when flipping over, edge cases like that.

However, without the parameters specified in the airplane flight model configuration, there is no change in the behavior of the ground handling model itself. Those parameters must be present and tuned to achieve a change in ground handling.”

Yeah, my interpretation of that is there isn't any change that universally affects the ground handling of all the planes in this Sim Update. Instead, the 3rd party devs of planes have to "opt in" and specify the ground handling parameters to get any benefits from the new ground handling changes in Sim Update 15.

25 minutes ago, Flic1 said:

Yup,,,I got the strange panel also when starting a flight but a restart of flight fixed it.  The other weird thing is that if there is no interaction for a certain amount of time (I stepped away from PC a couple times during flight for 15-20 minutes) when you move the mouse the landing gear extends.  There might also be some issues when choosing a panel state.  I tried to load up 'Takeoff' panel state and had total hydraulic loss which could not be fixed through the failure menu (Failures were off).

hmm ... , good to know that we are not alone. But others don't have any PMDG panel issues. That makes it difficult.

20 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Sounds like all the parameters must be specified. So it looks like there isn't a ground handling change that universally affects all the planes in this Sim Update 15. The 3rd party devs need to include the parameters to take advantage of the ground handling changes, or else the plane doesn't benefit from it. At least that is my reading of Matt's comment.

Right that's what I thought they'd initially said too.. but still confusing some folks seeing differences in PMDG 737 ground handling (could be placebo and/or the performance increase 🙂), and then Dutch of Milviz also saw noticeable improvements in his birds without the parameters, so hmm

In any case, Matt further clarifed: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/ground-contact-resolution-improvements/630251/40
"This is true of all parameters in the flight model, unless specifically called our otherwise in the documentation. The sim uses the defaults if the parameter is not present.
However, in this case, the default stickiness value of 1 would not be used by any code (although it would still be oaded), since the code would never be transitioning to the new ground model (since the other value is 0.1, i.e. always be using the old model)."

And someone on that thread put up this video with their initial impressions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B10RMCRFvUI
See for yourselfs what you think of the friction on the runway. I think Asobo done good, but i think they can up the percentage of nosewheel steering effect, which is attach able to controls setup and selectable as nosewheel steering to a slider or twistgrip any way steerable even without use of rudder but if you use the rudder which effects the nosewheel by default and nosewheel steering enhance the input of nosewheel angle
 

Edited February 16, 20242 yr by lwt1971

3 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

Right that's what I thought they'd initially said too.. but still confusing some folks seeing differences in PMDG 737 ground handling (could be placebo and/or the performance increase 🙂), and then Dutch of Milviz also saw noticeable improvements in his birds without the parameters, so still a bit confusing hmm

In any case, Matt further clarifed: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/ground-contact-resolution-improvements/630251/40
"This is true of all parameters in the flight model, unless specifically called our otherwise in the documentation. The sim uses the defaults if the parameter is not present.
However, in this case, the default stickiness value of 1 would not be used by any code (although it would still be oaded), since the code would never be transitioning to the new ground model (since the other value is 0.1, i.e. always be using the old model)."

And someone on that thread put up this video with their initial impressions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B10RMCRFvUI
See for yourselfs what you think of the friction on the runway. I think Asobo done good, but i think they can up the percentage of nosewheel steering effect, which is attach able to controls setup and selectable as nosewheel steering to a slider or twistgrip any way steerable even without use of rudder but if you use the rudder which effects the nosewheel by default and nosewheel steering enhance the input of nosewheel angle
 

Yeah, the reports from people that say the PMDG 737 ground handling is different in the SU 15 beta, and what Milviz is saying, just adds to the confusion 🤣

2 hours ago, rick celik said:

No thanks to that. Planes felt like they had no weight on the ground in older sims. Check your assignments as mentioned by others. Right curves and sensitivity is all you need. 

You have to be kidding? My 737NGX and 777 (the older version before they updated the ground handling model) in P3Dv4 felt like they had plenty of weight. My current 737-600 in MSFS feels as light as a feather in comparison.

Edited February 16, 20242 yr by Christopher Low

10 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

but still confusing some folks seeing differences in PMDG 737 ground handling

 

5 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

reports from people that say the PMDG 737 ground handling is different in the SU 15 beta

😄 Seriously guys, who to believe: A bunch of flight simmers who like to claim to see big FPS improvements/no more stutters at *every* release of a new Nvidia driver or Asobo, who actually coded the new ground handling?

Put it down to placebo effect.

Edited February 16, 20242 yr by F737MAX

24 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

 

😄 Seriously guys, who to believe: A bunch of flight simmers who like to claim to see big FPS improvements/no more stutters at *every* release of a new Nvidia driver or Asobo, who actually coded the new ground handling?

Put it down to placebo effect.

I'll chalk up the simmers' takes on supposed PMDG 737 ground handling improvements to placebo 🙂, but I still wonder about Dutch's (Milviz) findings below.. ya definitely what Asobo are saying is what should count, but perhaps there's some other change outside of the specific ground handling FM improvements (and parameters) that is contributing to what folks like Dutch are seeing 🤷‍♂️ (and yes, it's quite possible it's placebo in Dutch's case too hehe)
 

 

Edited February 16, 20242 yr by lwt1971

23 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

 

😄 Seriously guys, who to believe: A bunch of flight simmers who like to claim to see big FPS improvements/no more stutters at *every* release of a new Nvidia driver or Asobo, who actually coded the new ground handling?

Put it down to placebo effect.

Sure, but I think if Dutch from Milviz is saying the same thing, then perhaps something did change for the ground handling for all the aircraft. I am pretty sure someone like Dutch would be precise, since he knows exactly how his own plane performs in Sim Update 14.

In the end, I will take Matt Nischan's words as the final say (or if Matt or someone else on the MSFS team provides a further update) because Matt is on the MSFS team so he would know best. Still, it's very odd that even Dutch from Milviz was thinking there was some change to ground handling universally for all the planes.

Edited February 16, 20242 yr by abrams_tank

Just for the record, my ground handling doesn't seem much different (wasn't expecting anything without a modified config), and I haven't tried the C172 yet.

I took the B737-700 for a spin, and it was still skidding on the front wheel at medium lock and 12 knots.  (I know full lock will skid, and I think some people expect too much - it isn't a rally car).
So, it still looks like it's on ice from the outside view, and I am not sure these Asobo config fixes will do much for it either (I don't think they are designed to fix that).  I might try to paste them into a 737 config and give it a go.

 

Just flown the PMDG EGPH to LFPO. No difference except less stuttering and pauses? I think people are looking for problems when none exist. 

29 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

Just for the record, my ground handling doesn't seem much different (wasn't expecting anything without a modified config), and I haven't tried the C172 yet.

I took the B737-700 for a spin, and it was still skidding on the front wheel at medium lock and 12 knots.  (I know full lock will skid, and I think some people expect too much - it isn't a rally car).
So, it still looks like it's on ice from the outside view, and I am not sure these Asobo config fixes will do much for it either (I don't think they are designed to fix that).  I might try to paste them into a 737 config and give it a go.

 

 

12 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Just flown the PMDG EGPH to LFPO. No difference except less stuttering and pauses? I think people are looking for problems when none exist. 

I'm really wondering that you don't have any issues with the PMDG 737. Good for you of course! How do you increase/decrease flaps? In my case, I cannot move them at all. They are connected with my Flight Controller. Everything worked fine before the BETA.

Edited February 16, 20242 yr by Nemo

18 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

A (Seb): So, we don't have currently a hard limit set, it's just the limit of the memory. At some point, it's gonna drop the performance, right?

What we measure right now, and we're not finished optimizing, we're already at a four to five times performance increase. And I think we're gonna maybe get 10 […] you can easily add 10 times more surfaces, right? It's very quickly, right?

And so, I think if people add 20 times more surfaces than before, well, then you may be gonna offload, you know, load the other threads. And the more you load, the more you take away compute power for the terrain, or other stuff, right? Which is using thread.

I hope to heck they allocate enough of this to improve near field cloud depiction.  Pretty remarkable claims and def points to holding off on PC hardware upgrades until the dust clears more.

6 minutes ago, Nemo said:

 

I'm really wondering that you don't have any issues with the PMDG 737. Good for you of course! How do you increase/decrease flaps? In my case, I cannot move them at all. They are connected with my Flight Controller. Everything worked fine before the BETA.

Strange!  I have them linked to my Velocity One Flightstick on buttons B1 and B2.  They worked fine on the B737-700. Confirmed on the Quadrant with the indicator movement as well.  You may need to check / reset your controller profile. 

Unfortunately, some updates do mess with controller settings.  Sometimes the old ones are just 'hidden'.  You have to go into your specific controller profile and scroll along from the default and see if you can find other old ones in there.  I had to do that once or twice before.