Hi,

I've installed SU 15 Beta, and I have a question: 

Does your Cessna 172 fly level? Mine doesn't!

I don't know what it is happening.

Regards.

Edited February 16, 20242 yr by John Fields

48 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

Strange!  I have them linked to my Velocity One Flightstick on buttons B1 and B2.  They worked fine on the B737-700. Confirmed on the Quadrant with the indicator movement as well.  You may need to check / reset your controller profile. 

Unfortunately, some updates do mess with controller settings.  Sometimes the old ones are just 'hidden'.  You have to go into your specific controller profile and scroll along from the default and see if you can find other old ones in there.  I had to do that once or twice before.

Flaps don't even work when I use the mouse in the cockpit. The "flaps wheel" reacts but the flaps themselves and the flaps indicator don't. Very strange. I'm seeing hydraulics failures when I check the PMDG a/c menu, failures are currently deactivated in the PMDG options though. I think best will be to remove PMDG and install it again.

3 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

You have to be kidding? My 737NGX and 777 (the older version before they updated the ground handling model) in P3Dv4 felt like they had plenty of weight. My current 737-600 in MSFS feels as light as a feather in comparison.

I disagree strongly, the friction model the weight and compression model wasn’t as detailed as it is now. Many more parameters and contact points. The whole feeling of rails debate was about this…It was literally a downside of the older sims. 

Has anyone found any of the popular add-ons causing any conflict(s)?

Just now, Flyfaster_MTN002 said:

Has anyone found any of the popular add-ons causing any conflict(s)?

Fenix, FSHud, SimCars and FSLTL are working flawlessly.

3 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

Sure, but I think if Dutch from Milviz is saying the same thing, then perhaps something did change for the ground handling for all the aircraft. I am pretty sure someone like Dutch would be precise, since he knows exactly how his own plane performs in Sim Update 14.

In the end, I will take Matt Nischan's words as the final say (or if Matt or someone else on the MSFS team provides a further update) because Matt is on the MSFS team so he would know best. Still, it's very odd that even Dutch from Milviz was thinking there was some change to ground handling universally for all the planes.

Sorry for any confusion.

To be clear, I did not initially test the C310, only a couple of taildraggers, and that out of curiosity to see if things were improved on takeoff and landing for them.  It appeared to, but it was difficult to compare exactly because I couldn't easily return to pre-SU15.

Later I tried the C310 without any additional parameters, and it didn't taxi or takeoff/land noticeably different from pre-SU15.

I inserted a copy of the parameters (copied from here) out of curiosity, and noticed quite a difference.  It took a bit more power to taxi, and the takeoff rolls even in a crosswind were more manageable.

These are just preliminary tests.  The test parameters (copied from the C172) need to be tweaked for a high performance twin like the C310 for it to be realistic.

Perhaps some other change made the taildraggers easier to handle during takeoff.  I'm not sure.  I was just curious.  

I'm working on the SR-71 right now and can't do more on the C310 until SU15 is released.

Dutch

 

Edited February 16, 20242 yr by Dutch727

1 hour ago, Dutch727 said:

I'm working on the SR-71 right now and can't do more on the C310 until SU15 is released.

I bet the SR-71 doesn’t get impacted by ground friction too much 😀

Same as before the beta. No difference at all re the PMDG 737.
Just much better performance with regard to stutters and pauses.

Edited February 16, 20242 yr by jarmstro

5 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

but I still wonder about Dutch's (Milviz) findings below

 

5 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

Sure

 

😉

Jokes aside, thinking again about my earlier comment, while the placebo effect is a very strong one, it wouldn't surprise me to hear that aerodynamic effects have been impacted by Asobo's changes. Dutch and others probably have encountered some differences in handling compared to SU14, given the noteworthy changes happening for SU15.

 

When people say MSFS is a dynamic platform, they're not wrong. We know that devs often allude to coding being similar to this:

Some testing of the ground parameters using the default Asobo A320NEO...Starting at EHAM 36R with wind set to 18 m/s from 271 degrees in MSFS weather UI, so about 35 knots crosswind from the left with the airplane pointing straight down the runway.

First, SU14 with flight model cfg altered to not cancel out crosswind at any speed: SU14 Asosbo A320NEO Ground Xwind.mp4

Next, SU15 with same flight model cfg as for SU14 (new ground contact stuff not added): SU 15 Old ground contact parameters Gound Xwind 2.mp4

Then, SU15 with the new ground contact tuning parameters copied over from the C172 (not suggesting the exact same values would be appropriate for the A320NEO): SU 15 New ground contact parameters Asobo A320NEO Gound Xwind 2.mp4

New ground contact parameters from the C172 are as follows:

ground_new_contact_model_rolling_stickyness = 0.5; default = 1.0
ground_new_contact_model_up_to_speed_lateral = 1000.0 ; default = 0.1
ground_new_contact_model_up_to_speed_longitudinal = 1000.0 ; default = 1.0
ground_new_contact_model_gear_flex = 0.005 ; default = 0.0
ground_new_contact_model_gear_flex_damping = 5 ; default = 0.0

and finally, SU15 with the old ground contact parameters again, but this time with the default cancelling of crosswinds at low speed: SU 15 Old Ground Contact parameters but with Xwind cancelling Ground Xwind.mp4

So, there does not appear to be anything new in this case between SU14 and SU15 without the new ground contact parameters included. (The default values for the new ground contact parameters are low enough that they don't really have any effect if they are indeed used when not included in the cfg file.) This airplane will weathervane into the wind, and the airplane will skid the nose wheel to go in that direction when you have the wheel turned all the way toward the other direction

What is of some interest is that with the new ground contact parameters, you get a similar effect to cancelling out the crosswind at low speed for this case, but with some major differences. First, you need a lot more thrust to make the turn against the crosswind, and secondly, once you start turning, if you idle the engines the crosswind will cause this airplane to start turning in the opposite direction from which is started.  That, of course, does not happen with the old ground contact parameters with canceled out crosswind.

(Caution about trying this yourself. For some reason, in SU 15 when I selected to start on the runway at EHAM 36R, it started me on 27. I had to taxi to 36R to do the test. I would have changed locations, but I had already done the SU14 test on that runway.)

Edited February 16, 20242 yr by Donstim

I tried the parameters on the Bagolu Reims Rocket and it behaved just like the Asobo G1000 172 in: taxi, takeoff roll and landing roll. 

I also get consistently softer landings in the 104 fpm and as low as 24 fpm sometimes.

All this with real weather with a 12 knot quartering headwind.

 

Long pauses and stutters are effectively gone. Still have issues closing the program. Exiting a flight to main screen locks up. Have to open task manager to kill MSFS process.

10 hours ago, John Fields said:

Hi,

I've installed SU 15 Beta, and I have a question: 

Does your Cessna 172 fly level? Mine doesn't!

I don't know what it is happening.

Regards.

Yes, I've been flying the 172 (steam gauge default Asobo version) a lot in the beta. Flies beautifully. Same as before the beta.

There's no rudder trim on the 172, annoying. So I set a permanent trim in Sensitivities. The NEUTRAL circle icon moves off center left and right in the trial box. I have mine set at 26% (center is 0).

I bet the real 172 has a rudder trim!

On other planes I leave Neutral at 0%. Because I can trim the rudder in the cockpit instead.

Quick reaction after one startup, taxi and takeoff with 10 knots crxwind at YBTL in the glass 172, definitely felt a lot more stickiness on the ground, less rudder for cxwind, more like tyres than single, slippery contact points.

Only first flight in the beta (after swearing I was never gonna do another beta...) but so far, ground feels a lot better in the 172.