FSS B727F has been released

[Reader]

23 hours ago, james42 said:

Anyone else having any problems with the ground handling? Not sure if its something in my setup, but I can hardly get it to make a turn on the ground at all. Just tried to make a 180 on the runway and ended up using slew mode just remain in the airport boundary!

Gently does it. 

https://streamable.com/gz6crh?src=player-page-share

 

 

Edited August 8, 2024 by Reader

[pmplayer]

How does the INS work, can you do a flightplan and this plan gets somehow converted for the INS, how does this work.

I did a lot INS flights with the Concorde at FSX times and that was realy cool so hope this INS for the B727 is useable the way one should work..

cheers 😉

Edited August 8, 2024 by pmplayer

[Nyxx]

25 minutes ago, pmplayer said:

How does the INS work, can you do a flightplan and this plan gets somehow converted for the INS, how does this work.

I did a lot INS flights with the Concorde at FSX times and that was realy cool so hope this INS for the B727 is useable the way one should work..

cheers 😉

Surprisingly easy.

 

 

[Lord Farringdon]

On 8/8/2024 at 10:51 AM, btacon said:

I’m just checking in to say I’m having an absolute ball with this plane.  Very well done and not what I expected at all from FSS.  I own every plane they make including the E-Series.  I have all their planes because I collect planes and airports, not because of any Herculean Prowess from FSS, so…totally unexpected and paired with the TDS GTN Pro, amazing to fly.  A Home Run in my book.

YMMV  TANSTAAFL 

-B

Have to agree. Certainly a surprising outcome. 

Time has not been my friend of late so I have just been bashing the circuit that last couple of evenings to get a feel for the handling of the aircraft. While it seems to handle and feel extremely well at first, as I started experimenting with trim I got a couple of nasty pitch surprises and loss of elevator authority. Essentially I thought I was trimming the horizontal stab because the stab trim wheel was rotating with every selection. But to my surprise, I found the HS system is not modelled and a very slow moving elevator trim tab is all that controls pitch trim.  Over trim this tab and you soon run out of elevator authority while waiting for this trim tab to get back in range again. However if you know you are trimming a slow moving elevator tab, you can trim the airplane so it's almost rock steady in pitch. It's just not modelled that way it should be though. So, I got onto FSS discord and raised a bug/feature request (there is no HS animation either) expecting this to be down the list but Tim from FSS responded immediately and said this was planned. Carson from FSS doubled down and said it was not only planned, it is just about done!

I also raised a bug about the aft airstairs being about two steps too high. (It should touch the ground). Tim replied, "We know about this one, it is linked to gear compression and will be fixed soon".  

I also concurred with a couple of other bugs or missing features raised by others including the lack of interior modelling for the Zero Gravity livery.  FSS came straight back and said, " Maybe we will discuss that internally, but I think after the freighter we will concentrate us on the pax version..".   Fair enough!   

I also agreed with another poster who suggested a twin INS fitment. I mean in reality a single INS is a bit risky and in our B727 we had triple INS so that drift could be compared and the best two boxes chosen. There is obviously tons of space in this area and for those who aren't going to buy the aircraft because no B727 ever looked like that, the primary reason it does is because the Wx radar and associated controls have not been modeled and they would normally take up most of this space along with another INS. The absense or even the inclusion of an effectively useless WX radar is a pain for everyone I think but I would have thought the inclusion of one even marked inop would have helped the overall appearance. Anyway, in the meantime a twin INS would be good but FSS response is only..."It's in our tracker as a suggestion".

Another issue I found while bashing the circuit with touch and goes and full stops and backtracking for another take-off, was that the crew didn't seem to want to co-operate! Maybe they would have preferred being in the bar rather that doing circuits with Captain Quigg rolling mouse balls in his hand. But the Crew Manager app did seem to get itself messed up whenever I called for the"After Landing" checklist on a full stop and then looped back to "Taxi and Before Take-Off" checklists for the next circuit. I think APU and electrical bus switching in that environment caused some lighting issues including flashing lights or in one case no lights at all. So there is an issue here which may be lighting or may be the Crew Manager app bugging in non sequential operations or may be a combo of both. FSS haven't been so quick to respond to this bug which suggests they may still be trying to identify it.

Discord! I'm not a fan. Nothing worse than responding to a discussion and then someone stepping on your transmission with something entirely unrelated. Sure, it's communication but of a chaotic type. Like everyone pushing and shoving to get on an overloading bus, is still transportation.Is it any wonder some would prefer to take the car!  The FSS discord is no different. However, if you stay away from the general discussion and chat channels and just lurk on the announcement, support and bug channels, there is a wealth of easily obtainable information including many of the avionics/nav/electrical bugs and or inconsistencies which users are discovering as they become used to flying the aircraft in different modes.  It allows an opportunity to sensibly forward issues with easy pasting of images to which FSS seem very good at responding to quickly. Immediate supportive response from the developer to your personal question is very encouraging. So don't hesitate to join their channel if only for this!  

So I wholeheartedly agree with you @btacon. While it may not be a PMDG level product, (lack of failures is probably due to the lack of systems depth) but boy, it's a nice fly, the developer is constantly feeding back on discord while logging bugs and preparing for their next update. This aircraft scratches a long overdue itch, is so atmospheric and all the while being very reasonably priced.  Considering some of the similarly priced rubbish I have purchased in the past, this is a home run in my book too!  

Cheers

Terry

 

Edited August 9, 2024 by Lord Farringdon

[Dreamflight767]

@Lord Farringdon.  Thank you for the nice, helpful write-up.

[sd_flyer]

13 hours ago, Lord Farringdon said:

Ha an effectively useless WX radar

 

As its been discussed before WX radar is not useless it shows you limited forward cone but missing a tils function. I'd rather have something than nothing! I absolutely love WX radar in 777. 

I used enjoy FlyJsim 727  in XP11, this version from review looks pretty stripped down and frankly unappealing for me at the moment. Will see what another team will bring to the table!

[Lucky38i]

1 hour ago, sd_flyer said:

this version from review looks pretty stripped down and frankly unappealing for me at the moment

Can you tell us what looks stripped down? I'm having a lot of fun flying it, but there are a few bugs here and there though FSS says their tracking a lot of the bug reports as-well as doing a pneumatics rework. Though for day to day flying hasn't bothered me too much. Just looking at the insights to those who see it in a less favourable light

[sd_flyer]

1 hour ago, Lucky38i said:

Can you tell us what looks stripped down? I'm having a lot of fun flying it, but there are a few bugs here and there though FSS says their tracking a lot of the bug reports as-well as doing a pneumatics rework. Though for day to day flying hasn't bothered me too much. Just looking at the insights to those who see it in a less favourable light

WX radar, second INS

Flight Engineer panel looks like missing some stuff

 

[Lucky38i]

3 hours ago, sd_flyer said:

WX radar, second INS

Yeah that’s fair, FSS said they’re looking into adding it. However, early days there was configurations of using one CIVA

 

3 hours ago, sd_flyer said:

Flight Engineer panel looks like missing some stuff

Not missing anything, your reference is a super 727, a ”modern” variant of the 727 with more powerful engines among other things including digital dials on the FE. Though the cockpit of the 727 had many many configurations.

[sd_flyer]

6 minutes ago, Lucky38i said:

Yeah that’s fair, FSS said they’re looking into adding it. However, early days there was configurations of using one CIVA

 

Not missing anything, your reference is a super 727, a ”modern” variant of the 727 with more powerful engines among other things including digital dials on the FE. Though the cockpit of the 727 had many many configurations.

Gotcha! But what do you mean by "modern" variant? I thought Boring stopped making them long time ago?

[Lucky38i]

1 hour ago, sd_flyer said:

Gotcha! But what do you mean by "modern" variant? I thought Boring stopped making them long time ago?

I say modern cause it’s the latest variant of the 727 coming out in 1988. Whereas the 727-200 came out in 1967. Between that you also had the 727 advanced. Each variant would have its own amalgamation of retrofits and options. TWA was notorious for getting a bunch of random options whilst only having one manual, so you’d follow the manual the you can based on the equipment spec you had at the time.

[Lord Farringdon]

8 hours ago, sd_flyer said:

As its been discussed before WX radar is not useless it shows you limited forward cone but missing a tils function. I'd rather have something than nothing! I absolutely love WX radar in 777. 

I used enjoy FlyJsim 727  in XP11, this version from review looks pretty stripped down and frankly unappealing for me at the moment. Will see what another team will bring to the table!

My apologies. Poor choice of words on my part. I should have said "a not fully functional Wx radar". The problem is that some users will bag a developer for including something that doesn't work as expected and might therefore consider it less than useful. Others who like yourself accept the level of functionality that currently exists will argue the developer should have included it. The problem as I understand it is that fault lies with the sim's capabilities at the moment which does not allow full functionality, and clearly that just serves to frustrate both users and developers alike as to whether it should be included or not. As I said in my post above, "a pain for everyone", ( I should have added "in that full functionality does not exist") . But then, this thread and my post above was not about the value of the WX radar in its current form, nor did I want to have to subsequently explain in depth my poor choice of words while merely glossing over the matter in the above post, since neither approach adds anything of value to this thread. 

I appreciate that FSS's rendition of this airliner is "unappealing" compared to your experience of the XP11 FlyJsim B727. Conversely, I find FSS's B727 very appealing and it also brings back a lot of wonderful memories of actually crewing these aircraft around the world perhaps because I can see some of my colleagues sitting in those seats who are sadly no longer with us. Each to his own. I agree, the other team may bring something interesting to FS2024 but that's a long way off.  In the meantime, the character of the B727 enthuses us both perhaps in different ways and so it is fortunate we can enjoy this iconic bird in either sim.🙂 

   

Cheers

Terry    

[Cpt_Piett]

For those still on the fence (I consider myself in this group), there's this:

 

[UrgentSiesta]

18 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

For those still on the fence (I consider myself in this group), there's this:

 

This IRL ATP is always super reasonable. I enjoy his perspectives.

[gunther]

I watched that latest video. Looking good, I thought. After 20 minutes was ready to pull out my credit card. Then I watched him take off 65 tonnes of 727 (max gross is somewhere around 75 from memory) and be cleanly off the ground in 800-900 metres? And then eventually climbing 4000 fpm at 320KIAS at modest EPR? I've got a bunch of old 727-200 manuals somewhere in the attic, but I don't think I'll need to get them to see if those numbers are close. Plus, again, this pitch response of something the size and mass of a 152. 

I was on the fence. Still am. But my credit card is back in the wallet for now. Don't need "study level", but I want something with an "authentic" feel to the flight model, especially since this is very much a hands-on aircraft.