25 minutes ago, psolk said:

They left the door open to revise that with caveats based on the unknowns of 24 I believe.  

All of which is quite concerning as Asobo/MS say addons should work fine but it doesn't sound like any add on developers actually have the 24 sim to confirm that...  

So it "sounds like" it is essentially being developed in a vacuum if even Marketplace developers like PMDG can't confirm there products will indeed work without issues.  

That's my reading between the lines though.  

Did Asobo state that all 2020 aircraft will work in new sim in legacy mode or something like that?

Love iFly but this plane in its current state is not ready for prime time. Good on the developers as they have released what is basically a beta version to certain Youtubers. So they are doing this with all cards on the table. So i respect the following YouTuber who also is an airline pilot and has flown about 100 hours on the MAX:

Bottom line is that work needs to be done. I think iFly shouldn't worry what Asobo puts out. Wait for 2024 and correct the issues noted.

5 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

Did Asobo state that all 2020 aircraft will work in new sim in legacy mode or something like that?

https://flightsimulator.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/12702272798364-Microsoft-Flight-Simulator-2024-FAQ#:~:text=Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 is a standalone simulator and the,in Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024.

Quote

Will Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 be a completely standalone sequel, or will it also be offered as a paid update for existing players?

Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 is a standalone simulator and the next-generation sequel to Microsoft Flight Simulator that launched in 2020. Current aircraft and airports that are in Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020), as well as virtually all Marketplace add-ons, will be supported in Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024.

 

7 minutes ago, Lenny777 said:

Love iFly but this plane in its current state is not ready for prime time. Good on the developers as they have released what is basically a beta version to certain Youtubers. So they are doing this with all cards on the table. So i respect the following YouTuber who also is an airline pilot and has flown about 100 hours on the MAX:

Bottom line is that work needs to be done. I think iFly shouldn't worry what Asobo puts out. Wait for 2024 and correct the issues noted.

I haven't seen any real show stopper, although I only skimmed through this one here (watched the previous one in full lenght). The PMDG 737 had a very bad LNAV for over a year (and it's still not great), it had a totally wrong engine spool up time (similar to what we see here in the MAX) for several months etc. As long as these things get fixed over time, they can release it as is, just like PMDG did with their 737. It might even be in a better shape than the Fenix was when released (considering the issues back then with flight dynamics, fuel burn, no engine model etc.).

31 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

As long as these things get fixed over time, they can release it as is, just like PMDG did with their 737. It might even be in a better shape than the Fenix was when released

I dunno. PMDG gave us the very first complex airliner in MSFS, Fenix the first complex Airbus. There were slim pickings two years ago.

I don't think most people will be as tolerant now of such quirky behaviour when it won’t be released as an early access product, and especially not for $70 as it currently stands.

Clearly iFly knows how to build airplanes for MSFS. It also appears that they really care about building a solid product. So I am pretty confident that they will continue to make this a really good add-on. It just might not be 100% there on release day. 

1 hour ago, RobJC said:

It just might not be 100% there on release day. 

Which product was or is that, not a single one was 100% OK when it was first released, that's almost a rule and it's probably not even intended that way. As long as errors are fixed in subsequent updates, it's actually not a problem for me and is actually done this way by almost all Devs. And I actually consider iFly to be a serious developer who places great value on their work !!

cheers 😉

Edited October 9, 20241 yr by pmplayer

4 hours ago, Mike T said:

So, let's talk about who's out of their minds...

The 3d model of the 737 cockpits in PMDG are a pixel-for-pixel ports from P3D. Limitations in the autoflight systems (and even bugs) were almost exactly the same as they were in P3D 

Another thing is an annoying issue with IAN mode. The rwy info does not appear on PFD until APR is pressed. This is wrong. It should appear first, and then when APR is pressed afterwards, that triggers FAC and G/P annunciators. Zibo mod and IFly have it working. But then not many simmers seem to know about or fly RNAV IAN approaches, and it doesn't get fixed. That being said the flight model of Pmdg 737 is very good, maybe better than IFly. Time will tell.

There's a difference in the purchaser being a de facto beta tester and a select group testing the plane before release. Once the latter is engaged with identified problems then there is no excuse releasing the plane to the general public without those problems being addressed.  I hope and expect iFly will do it right.

One thing I saw in FD2Sim's latest video is that he killed an engine approaching the gate and the plane immediately stopped rolling, until he applied a good handful of thrust on the remaining engine.  That definitely should not happen, as he also remarked.  What it makes me wonder about is their single engine flight model.  Remember how the Fenix couldn't do a V1 cut or really any single engine work for over a year?  Sure hope that's not going to be the case here, would be kind of a glaring error.  This is stuff the PMDG could do out of the box, even way back in FSX.

2 hours ago, pmplayer said:

Which product was or is that, not a single one was 100% OK when it was first released, that's almost a rule and it's probably not even intended that way. As long as errors are fixed in subsequent updates, it's actually not a problem for me and is actually done this way by almost all Devs. And I actually consider iFly to be a serious developer who places great value on their work !!

cheers 😉

Agree 100% and that was really my point. They know how to build ac like this, and they have the passion to do it right. Only a matter of time before this bird is one of the top 5 in MSFS. 

9 hours ago, Mike T said:

Are those all just "unironic" coincidences? And I gotta ask? Are you getting paid to defend vendors and insult your fellow flight simmers? Because it seems that's all you do.

Mike T

People who know only negativity and disrespect for developers are not my "fellow simmers." I know a lot of people who recognize and respect the absolutely massive work developers like PMDG do, and these people are my "fellow simmers."

The fact that *obviously* some parts have been brought forward (with a lot of additional work done on them, because if you really think the cockpit of the 737 is "pixel by pixel" the same as P3D, you haven't looked) doesn't mean that saying that 90% of the aircraft is ported isn't completely insane. 

Third-party developers have been and will always be the lifeblood of this hobby. I will never not defend them from this kind of silly hyperbole. 

It's sad that whenever there's a new developer on the block there's always some intent in throwing mud at those who have kept this hobby alive for a decade and still do great work.

I suppose some people are incapable of celebrating the accomplishments of the new while also respecting those who are already around.   

Edited October 10, 20241 yr by Abriael

52 minutes ago, Abriael said:

People who know only negativity and disrespect for developers are not my "fellow simmers." I know a lot of people who recognize and respect the absolutely massive work developers like PMDG do, and these people are my "fellow simmers."

The fact that *obviously* some parts have been brought forward (with a lot of additional work done on them, because if you really think the cockpit of the 737 is "pixel by pixel" the same as P3D, you haven't looked) doesn't mean that saying that 90% of the aircraft is ported isn't completely insane. 

Third-party developers have been and will always be the lifeblood of this hobby. I will never not defend them from this kind of silly hyperbole. 

It's sad that whenever there's a new developer on the block there's always some intent in throwing mud at those who have kept this hobby alive for a decade and still do great work.

I suppose some people are incapable of celebrating the accomplishments of the new while also respecting those who are already around.   

Ah, I see. So if they're not with you, are they against you? Only a Sith deals in absolutes. Obi Wan would have something to say about that.

You've appointed yourself the Hammer of the Scots and moderator for anyone and anything you deem to counter to your opinions. Developers are not Gods who are beyond reproach and neither are they to be beaten into the ground. The truth is somewhere in between. But your insulting and demeaning people with countering opinions to yours and your obsession with beating every differing opinion into the ground comes across as totally belligerent. 

Unfortunately, this is the direction that Avsim has taken, and many of us who frequented this place and used to enjoy the light-hearted discourse and banter have faded away.

That's all I have to say about that (Forrest Gump).

1 hour ago, Abriael said:

absolutely massive work developers

I "develop" liveries...and yes....development at the level we're at these days is a massive undertaking. I've been working non-stop trying to finalize and upload all my liveries.

This is an older spreadsheet I kept track of items completed and new things to get as the beta cycle progressed and changed things for the painters.  The current version of this is much more complete...with new liveries I've done since I started the list.  I don't want to even estimate how much time I've put into this project. 🤔

The big text were the things I was forgetting after a long day of putting a livery(s) together, and came late in the beta cycle, LOL.  Some of the update versions we up to 0.1.5 because I'd miss little things, then had to repackage, upload and mark it ready for the livery manager.

Add to that I had to evacuate to Atlanta right in the middle of my busiest time prepping for release because I live here:  (Sad to see a hurricane in MSFS barreling down on your city. 😞

 

 

9 hours ago, F737MAX said:

I dunno. PMDG gave us the very first complex airliner in MSFS

Actually Leonardo did with the Maddog