100% Agree with this review.

One thing is for sure, Asobo would fit right in to the US government and their work product. 

49 minutes ago, B777ER said:

One thing is for sure, Asobo would fit right in to the US government and their work product. 

Except the IRS right? THEY should make a sim, every rivet would be in the right place and billed for.

5 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I think they made a choice with 2024, not to give it to beta testers like they did finally with 2020, after users start complaining that the patches were buggy. The reason 2024 wasn't given to beta testers, is they probably anticipated the beta testers telling them that it was bug filled and wasn't ready for release, and they didn't want to hear that. 

This was exactly it, and why a lot of us were suspicious before release at the risk of being sniped at by the Asobo evangelists.  They didn't want us to see what state it was in before they shook the can again. Simple.

Then we were misled by content creators who probably felt obliged after their freebie trip to the Grand Canyon.  I will never trust some of them ever again. 

I notice some don't show their faces around here any more, but I hope they do.  I have some... questions. 

5 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I think they made a choice with 2024, not to give it to beta testers like they did finally with 2020, after users start complaining that the patches were buggy. The reason 2024 wasn't given to beta testers, is they probably anticipated the beta testers telling them that it was bug filled and wasn't ready for release, and they didn't want to hear that. 

I absolutely agree Bob. They knew how broken this game was, and they decided to release it anyways. Testing would have only confirmed the obvious. What little respect they have for us. Unfortunately, they have done a tremendous amount of damage to the community, and it was all self-inflicted.  

Look at these reviews. 

IGN 9/10

PC Gamer 90%

I won't ever bother trusting them again. 

17 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

Then we were misled by content creators who probably felt obliged after their freebie trip to the Grand Canyon.  I will never trust some of them ever again. 

I notice some don't show their faces around here any more, but I hope they do.  I have some... questions. 

I think we've only had one here may have gone to the event.

Back in the day, when I was in the Game Press I went to a fair amount of these events. And also similar sessions back when E3 was a thing.

The ones I went to were structured similar to the Grand Canyon event, without the fun helicopter rides. We'd have an opening presentation by the devs about the game and the design philosphy behind it and their hopes and dreams. We'd then have interview sessions with the devs usually with a PR minder along. Then we'd get maybe an hour or two with the actual game.

The game play time for me was the least appealing part of the session. So many things would and do change over the course of the development. Plus, we all knew we were running code not even close to public consumption. If I hated the UI, it could change. If I hated how a certain class played, that could change. It was a given the game would run like word not allowed with all the debugging code against it.

A lot of this even by the time my article went to press.

Games Journalism falls into Enthusiast Press. By and large my readers wanted to learn about the new game and hear what was happening. After events like the Grand Canyon and a crappy launch people expect there should have been some level of Bob Woodward's "All the President's Men" to come out of it. I don't even call what I did journalism. Our readers wanted to hear about the new game .

Where, as a writer, these events had value was being able to interrogate the devs about design design decisions. Were I at the Grand Canyon event for sure I'd have asked questions about streaming and how they were going to mitigate bandwidth issues. But, frankly, a lot of what I'd ask about was the career mode since that is a new native portion of the sim we hadn't seen yet.

That said, I don't recall doing a presser as close to launch as the Grand Canyon event. Also, things have changed wildly since I did this. YouTube wasn't even really a thing and most of my paid writing was for print magazines. The only "clickbait" was whatever advertising put on the cover. From reading about the event, it's on par with what I experienced.

 

On 12/24/2024 at 7:12 AM, Ray Proudfoot said:

I watched it even though I don’t own it. You should. It’s quite entertaining and well balanced. You might change your opinion.

sorry, I know this post is a couple days old, but this statement boggles my mind.  Why would someone who has 65 hours of experience with a thing find their opinion changed by watching a video of someone else reviewing a product?  why should they?  I can accept that someone else who has used a product like I have doesn't come to the same conclusions.  I have loved products that reviewers hate, I have hated products that reviewers love.  Reviews are for people contemplating buying a product, or, apparently, creating an info bubble these days.  not for people to re-evaluate something they already use.

I mean, if someone were to create a competent video covering p3d's shortcomings, would that change your opinion on p3d?  Of course it wouldn't.  you use and like p3d and have reconciled yourself to those things already.

I use and like 2024.  It works better for me than 2020 did.  I have not had a single CTD.  I stayed away on opening day so I didn't experience the server meltdown (mostly because I assumed beforehand that that was going to be the case based on lots of past experience with anticipated software launches, not just Asobo related).  I also have a clear headed recognition of areas in which this sim could be better.  I have zero issues with anyone who has legitimately used the sim who has either had issues that I have not experienced, or whose tolerance for some of those things differs from mine.

Those who have not tried the sim, who parrot opinions of others to try to make me question what I have already seen with my own eyes? (and, certainly not just you Ray)  I'm not down with that.

FS2024 is not perfect, and there is plenty negative that can be said honestly at this point.  but it is at the same time overhated.

6 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

Why would someone who has 65 hours of experience with a thing find their opinion changed by watching a video of someone else reviewing a product? 

65 hours? Where did that come from? Who said my opinion had changed? It hasn’t. I was commenting on the presentation which I found interesting, amusing at times and balanced. It is possible to like a video without agreeing or disagreeing with the presenter’s opinion.

9 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

Those who have not tried the sim, who parrot opinions of others to try to make me question what I have already seen with my own eyes? (and, certainly not just you Ray) 

I haven’t parroted anyone. My own opinion.

On 12/25/2024 at 7:08 AM, MrFuzzy said:

I am also reinstalling MSFS, I will keep both until '24 is fixed.

I think that is a smart decision, and helpful if you want to harvest/copy 2020 aircraft. But if you are like me, you will find yourself flying 2024 90% of the time, and being pleased with the new world around you. 🙂

I am talking about free flight mode.. single or multiplayer.  Have not tried career mode as yet (and may not ever..).

Edited December 26, 20241 yr by Bert Pieke

2 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

65 hours? Where did that come from? Who said my opinion had changed? It hasn’t. I was commenting on the presentation which I found interesting, amusing at times and balanced. It is possible to like a video without agreeing or disagreeing with the presenter’s opinion.

I haven’t parroted anyone. My own opinion.

the user you quoted in your statement that I responded to indicated in the quote that he had 65 hours experience with msfs2024.  and you stated directly that they might change their opinion upon watching the vid.  you can certainly like videos regardless of agreement, I do all the time, but that wasn't what I was reacting to.

for the second statement, regardless of connotation, this thread is about parroting an opinion.  And the importance of an opinion borne from first hand knowledge over that of one gained by absorbing third hand knowledge and opinions is a point of view I stand behind,  both for me, and the video author

2 hours ago, ShawnG said:

the user you quoted in your statement that I responded to indicated in the quote that he had 65 hours experience with msfs2024.  and you stated directly that they might change their opinion upon watching the vid.  you can certainly like videos regardless of agreement, I do all the time, but that wasn't what I was reacting to.

for the second statement, regardless of connotation, this thread is about parroting an opinion.  And the importance of an opinion borne from first hand knowledge over that of one gained by absorbing third hand knowledge and opinions is a point of view I stand behind,  both for me, and the video author

I think what Ray is saying is that the poster might change his mind about the video, not the sim itself. It was well done and very funny. Just because you find a video entertaining, that doesn’t mean you have to agree with everything they are saying. I don’t think Ray was implying that the poster might change his mind about the sim. Because…English. Not surprisingly, egghead agrees with you lol. 

4 hours ago, RobJC said:

I think what Ray is saying is that the poster might change his mind about the video, not the sim itself. It was well done and very funny. Just because you find a video entertaining, that doesn’t mean you have to agree with everything they are saying. I don’t think Ray was implying that the poster might change his mind about the sim. Because…English. Not surprisingly, egghead agrees with you lol. 

I suppose that's a possible explanation of someone else's post, sure.  But it's not like posts of ours exist in a vacuum without other context.  we know what our points of view are, and if one habitually casts aspersions on a thing, and they then appear to be casting another aspersion on a thing, I could be forgiven for thinking it's the case, don't you think?  For example, I'm pretty habitually hard on PMDG's business practices, so if I say a thing in a PMDG thread it's most likely I don't mean it complimentary...  

 

Edited December 27, 20241 yr by ShawnG

On 25/12/2024 at 21:30, RobJC said:

Estoy totalmente de acuerdo, Bob. Sabían lo defectuoso que era este juego y decidieron lanzarlo de todos modos. Las pruebas solo habrían confirmado lo obvio: el poco respeto que tienen por nosotros. Lamentablemente, han causado un daño tremendo a la comunidad y todo fue autoinfligido.  

They will come back here when the waters calm down to sell us their bibles again.

 

The problem is that in a few months when everything works better all this will be forgotten until the next version where they will do the same thing again, because unfortunately this is already a standard in the video game industry for a long time. The culprits are really the consumers who swallow everything.

6 hours ago, Aglos77 said:

 The culprits are really the consumers who swallow everything.

Ahhh...I see. So...it's my fault?

Sigh........