2 minutes ago, JBDB-MD80 said:

Happy but surprised Fenix was voted the top for airlines as I thought for sure PMDG 777 would edge them because that was the first "high Fidelity" long range airliner that has released for MSFS.

Not surprised by MS2020 still on top but it could change by the time the next survey is done.

To be honest I was surprised they didn’t get top after pinging everyone. 😂

I think the release for PMDG with how they said it was different, cough new sounds. When nothing had basically changed and people saw through it.

Edited April 16, 20251 yr by carlanthony24

For those that are interested in the Primary Flight Simulator Software chart from the 2023 Navigraph survey, this is what it looked like:

Edited April 16, 20251 yr by abrams_tank

42 minutes ago, psolk said:

In "my opinion" these numbers are the most definitive indicator of the lack of Execution from Asobo...

Totally YOUR opinion. Surveys are not definitive. This survey was done at a data point in time. I'm not interpreting a survey in that matter. It simply asked 1 question and 23K people responded. A pretty small sampling for the most part.

6 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

But it's not bad either, given the terrible launch of MSFS 2024.  If you told me after the launch of MSFS 2024 and how bad it went, that MSFS as a total, gained market share, I would take it as a win if I were Jorg. But that's my opinion.

I'm fairly certain if you told Jorg that as a result of doing all of the development work and expenses of 2024 you would gain 6 points, split your own user base  and that your prior sim would still be the 2:1 choice they wouldn't see it as a win...

There is actually nothing to say 2020 wouldn't have moved from 70-76% doing absolutely nothing and not spending millions on a new sim.  Does the cost of '24 justify 6 points of market share?  I honestly don't know but I doubt it.  I doubt they are looking at these results and feeling proud of the results or talking about wins... 

I mean that is a very creative spin they will probably try to management but not something that should be a win to anyone and I am sure if that was presented in a meeting as a "win" it would be met with a great deal of pushback... 

3 minutes ago, tpete61 said:

Totally YOUR opinion. Surveys are not definitive. This survey was done at a data point in time. I'm not interpreting a survey in that matter. It simply asked 1 question and 23K people responded. A pretty small sampling for the most part.

Um, there was a lot more than one question to this but OK.

I'm surprised you didn't just respond "who cares" with your usual M.O.  Sometimes I question what you are actually doing here if you don't care about any of the posts LOL

Edited April 16, 20251 yr by psolk

14 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

That's a win for MSFS

I hope I can stay with 2024. If they release SU2 without fixing my crashing issue, I will have to go with XP12 (which is running superbly on my PC).

I love 2024 so I am really hoping it's fixed before they release it.

36 minutes ago, psolk said:

I respectfully disagree.  Had '24 delivered on everything it promised including Marketplace, backwards compatibility etc etc there is no way 2020 holds on like this.

Well....MSFS2024 hasn't been out for long. It will undoubtedly overtake 2020 even though you are living in the past. It does and will in the future deliver what was promised. Just because the marketplace didn't launch right away wasn't a big deal. Could be why people stayed with MSFS2020 for now. Unfortunately most software products are no longer released in a finished state on launch. Sad but reality.

 

3 minutes ago, tpete61 said:

Well....MSFS2024 hasn't been out for long. It will undoubtedly overtake 2020 even though you are living in the past. It does and will in the future deliver what was promised. Just because the marketplace didn't launch right away wasn't a big deal. Could be why people stayed with MSFS2020 for now. Unfortunately most software products are no longer released in a finished state on launch. Sad but reality.

 

Nope, I'm in the present you are talking about the future.  I can't change the past or control the future so I tend to live in the here and now...

Edited April 16, 20251 yr by psolk

29 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

A total of 77% for MSFS. That's an increase from 70.8% from the last Navigraph survey.  So MSFS is still gaining market share.

Well your dealing with a passionate few here that have a agenda in ripping MSFS2024 because it doesn't check all the boxes for them that they expected.

It works quite well for most of us...no turning back at this point.

"Are you currently enrolled in flight school?"

Yes - 9%

No - 91%

Presumably, those figures were reversed in the P3D era?

No surprises, msfs24 wasn't ready on launch day and the only reason it was launched anyway was to grab some important Xmas sales. Period!

It start to get better and by year end, SU2 and SU3 will make it more reliable and offer more features.

I have no doubts that before the end of the year, a lot of msfs users will have switched to msfs24. That's the future anyway and it will bring way more opportunities for devs and users. Some devs like Ini, Aerosoft, PMDG already stated that they will abandon msfs. and more will follow.

What is shocking me more is that msfs/msfs24 have a 76.9% market share. It is impressive. I would have tought it would be lower than that. Despite the improvments of XP12, it remains a niche simulator. On it's side, with less than 2% of users, P3D is barely alive. I don't know if a possible P3D 7.0 could save it. Not even sure.

Edited April 16, 20251 yr by sdirand

Many interesting and good data to dig through... When it comes to most important aircraft simulation aspects:

"Comparing this year’s structured ratings to last year’s open-ended responses, some clear trends emerge. Aircraft Systems Depth, Authenticity, and Flight Model Accuracy remain the top priorities, with respondents rating them extremely high in value. Graphics and Cockpit Features continue to be important, maintaining strong ratings"

A great majority value aircraft systems/FM/etc fidelity as most important and visual fidelity also with strong ratings but secondary. No surprise then a sim platform like MSFS garners 77% as the number one choice, and an aircraft like the Fenix is the #1 add-on.

Edited April 16, 20251 yr by lwt1971

42 minutes ago, psolk said:

They added 2024 and gained 6 points of market share over not doing anything...  NOT a good ROI when your previous generation is more than half the market share and double your latest release.  Think of the Dev expense to gain 6 points of Market Share 

You sound like one of those "growth NOW" investors. I'd be curious to see any data around 2020 launch and whatever the sim of choice was back then. I imagine 4 months in folks would look at 2020's numbers and go "wow, what a fail." MSFS is a long-game program for them. It's not like a Madden release they crank out every year.

There are many things I imagine Jorg is unhappy about. The problem with these surveys and the Steam charts is they slice a data set in a narrow manner with a bias. The Navigraph surveys are also a self-reporting check box. There is no data validation behind them.

For example, as I mentioned Navigraph/Simbrief skew to the airliner crowd who have the most challenges in 2024. The Steam charts show only Steam usage, but no underlying data. And 23k folks out of the millions Jorg says use the sim are a rounding error on a rounding error.

Jorg, I imagine, is just going to ignore the Navigraph results other than a public opinion poll. Why? Because Jorg has access to his own data that is automatically generated. Pretty much everything we do in MSFS is tracked on their end and that is the data he is going to use.

That said, I'd be surprised if he is happy at the overall state of 2024 and his data probably shows 2020 still winning anyway. All we have here are anecdotal comments from users, with, as I said, their own bias.

That said, both sims are money for Jorg. Like Apple, Jorg doesn't care which version of MSFS you buy.

26 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

Many interesting and good data to dig through... When it comes to most important aircraft simulation aspects:

"Comparing this year’s structured ratings to last year’s open-ended responses, some clear trends emerge. Aircraft Systems Depth, Authenticity, and Flight Model Accuracy remain the top priorities, with respondents rating them extremely high in value. Graphics and Cockpit Features continue to be important, maintaining strong ratings"

 

A great majority value aircraft systems/FM/etc fidelity as most important and visual fidelity also with strong ratings but secondary. No surprise then a sim platform like MSFS garners 77% as the number one choice, and an aircraft like the Fenix is the #1 add-on.

Yup, and I think the avionics is what sets MSFS 2020/2024 apart from the other competitors.  I can imagine that a lot of Navigraph subscribers, especially if they are flying a GA plane on VATSIM, appreciate the the GA avionics work that Working Title has done.

42 minutes ago, psolk said:

I'm fairly certain if you told Jorg that as a result of doing all of the development work and expenses of 2024 you would gain 6 points, split your own user base  and that your prior sim would still be the 2:1 choice they wouldn't see it as a win... 

It's not a split.  You have forgotten what happened with MSFS2020 and P3D.   The same thing is going on here.