Also, fun with small sample sets. I am in a coffee shop right now. Almost everyone here has a MacBook. Now, granted, the coffee shop crowd likely skew Apple, but surely this means Windows is a failure 🙂

1 hour ago, RobJC said:

I wonder how many takes they needed while it was probably crashing left and right. 

They probably didn't have any crashes. The sim is perfectly stable if you're not using any addons.

One thing for sure, despite the botched launch of 2024 and despite it being 5 months old, the fact that the main competition for 2024 and 2020 is each other has gotta make Jorg and MS happy 🙂

There is no doubt that they would have liked 2024 adoption rates to be better than they are currently (even though it is only 5 months old). Such is the price for a releasing it earlier than it should have been.. but overall investment wise I doubt it makes a big difference, i.e. their dev cost would be no different to releasing last Nov vs this Nov or whatever. Sure, the rep of 2024 has taken a hit but in the sim software world these things are quickly forgotten once the product reaches critical mass stage and actually delivers the goods (case in point being 2020 and how it evolved)

 

Edited April 16, 20251 yr by lwt1971

14 minutes ago, Mace said:

It's not a split.  You have forgotten what happened with MSFS2020 and P3D.   The same thing is going on here.

Um, last year 71% was on 2020, this year the total is 76% but its 52% on 2020 and 24% on 2024 so they took 18 points of share from 2020 for 2024 to grow to 24%. 

They absolutely split their user base there is no other way to explain that, it's right there in black and white.  

22 minutes ago, BrammyH said:

Also, fun with small sample sets. I am in a coffee shop right now. Almost everyone here has a MacBook. Now, granted, the coffee shop crowd likely skew Apple, but surely this means Windows is a failure 🙂

 

The question is, do 23k users who participate in a survey like Navigraph's represent a good picture of the "serious simmer" market? From what I remember, it was already stated by various hifi add-on devs in past years that they do take this survey as a good representation of the serious simmer sentiment.

Edited April 16, 20251 yr by lwt1971

3 minutes ago, Tuskin38 said:

They probably didn't have any crashes. The sim is perfectly stable if you're not using any addons.

Do you remember one of the MSFS videos where testers in the background were having a go. One of them CTD. 

Just now, psolk said:

Um, last year 71% was on 2020, this year the total is 76% but its 52% on 2020 and 24% on 2024 so they took 18 points of share from 2020 for 2024 to grow to 24%. 

They absolutely split their user base there is no other way to explain that, it's right there in black and white.  

It is not a split, it's the same thing.

If XP or P3D had gained, THEN you'd have something.

Remember what happened with MSFS2020 and P3D?   It was like this, it went to 50% to 20% to whatever-it-is-now.    You watch, the same thing will happen this time.

3 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

The question is, do 23k users who participate in a survey like Navigraph's represent a good picture of the "serious summer" market?

I would say so, yes.

It also helps they release the raw data for someone to interrogate. Like I said, tonight I am going to dump the CSV into my reporting tools and slice the data to match up somethings like age ranges, folks who fly say, the Fenix and the sim of their choice.

As a data analyst, I can at least do something with this data.

1 minute ago, Mace said:

It is not a split, it's the same thing.

If XP or P3D had gained, THEN you'd have something.

Remember what happened with MSFS2020 and P3D?   It was like this, it went to 50% to 20% to whatever-it-is-now.    You watch, the same thing will happen this time.

Lets do this again

2020 in 2023 had 71% Market Share (MS had 71% Market Share)

2020 in 2024 had 52% market share (MS had 77%)

2024 in '24 had 24% market share (MS had 77%)

MS now has 76% in two sims vs 71% in one sim.

They split their user base across two sims to grow 6%

 

 

 

If you want to consider 2024 / 2020 a "split" then go ahead.  But the reality is that it's the same program, different day.  I'm using all of my 2020 airplanes in 2024 except for the PMDG 737.    That's all of them except one.

I even got the JustFlight Tomahawk working flawlessly in 2024 the other day, wear and tear and walkaround all perfectly working.  It even carried over my wear n tear from 2020 into 2024.   I'm really happy about that.

2 minutes ago, Mace said:

If you want to consider 2024 / 2020 a "split" then go ahead.  But the reality is that it's the same program, different day.  I'm using all of my 2020 airplanes in 2024 except for the PMDG 737.    That's all of them except one.

I even got the JustFlight Tomahawk working flawlessly in 2024 the other day, wear and tear and walkaround all perfectly working.  It even carried over my wear n tear from 2020 into 2024.   I'm really happy about that.

If it wasn't a split they wouldn't be separate options in the survey...  They are two different titles right now actively competing with each other.  

It is NOT the same program or I wouldn't have had to buy it again, install it again and configure it again LOL!  

Edited April 16, 20251 yr by psolk

Bottom line MSFS2020 is the most used sim of this survey not 2024 get over it folks. Maybe next year it will change and according to MS/Asobo they are not the same..

Edited April 16, 20251 yr by JBDB-MD80

1 hour ago, carlanthony24 said:

To be honest I was surprised they didn’t get top after pinging everyone. 😂

I think the release for PMDG with how they said it was different, cough new sounds. When nothing had basically changed and people saw through it.

Thats exactly what did it for me. The Fenix was complete. The 777 needed better sounds so in my eyes was not complete.

 

2 minutes ago, psolk said:

If it wasn't a split they wouldn't be separate options in the survey...  They are two different titles right now actively competing with each other.

Yes and no. For Jorg, a customer is a customer. I'm not sure if the Navigraph data even has an option for Gamepass users. Those folks haven't bought either version.

I didn't expect this data to be much different. If anyone seriously thought 4 months after release -- even if the release was a flawless gem of beauty -- the numbers would be reversed, I'd like to sample their pharmaceutical of choice.

16 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

 

The question is, do 23k users who participate in a survey like Navigraph's represent a good picture of the "serious summer" market? From what I remember, it was already stated by various hifi add-on devs in past years that they do take this survey as a good representation of the serious summer sentiment.

That's just it, we ultimately don't have numbers on how many people play MSFS.  Could 23k people be a decent sample size?  Possibly, but we don't know the size of the entire population.  

I did see this survey on a lot of vendor social media, discord, etc so my guess is that it gets a decent sample of the serious simmer, but again there's no way to know for sure.  

My guess is that these numbers are reasonable to draw conclusions off of, but polling biases can happen.  

 

Edited April 16, 20251 yr by kerosene31