April 16, 20251 yr 2 minutes ago, psolk said: It's a common theme you further enforced which is any data presented that shows 2024 in a poor light is useless and meaningless and immediately dismissed yet the same people routinely reference a statement by Jorg with no data to actually back it up about the millions using 2024. I'm still not sure why you quoted me then when I've never mentioned the Steam figures or any claims made by Jorg? 9950X3D - X870E Aorus Master- TUF 5090 OC - 64GB DDR5 - 1500W HXi - Titan 360 RX LCD - 9100 Pro x 2 - LG 45GX950A - HOTAS Warthog with Ava Base
April 16, 20251 yr 21 minutes ago, psolk said: MSFS alone had 71% of the market last year. That's massive! Anyone would be happy with 70% market share 🙂 NO! MSFS had 71% market share for the people that use Navigraph or have even ever heard of it! It's just another survey that can be interpreted many ways! If it was 23K respondents I would have to think that's a very small number of simmers.
April 16, 20251 yr 1 minute ago, tpete61 said: NO! MSFS had 71% market share for the people that use Navigraph or have even ever heard of it! It's just another survey that can be interpreted many ways! If it was 23K respondents I would have to think that's a very small number of simmers. Thank you. Some common sense. 9950X3D - X870E Aorus Master- TUF 5090 OC - 64GB DDR5 - 1500W HXi - Titan 360 RX LCD - 9100 Pro x 2 - LG 45GX950A - HOTAS Warthog with Ava Base
April 16, 20251 yr Author 1 minute ago, tpete61 said: NO! MSFS had 71% market share for the people that use Navigraph or have even ever heard of it! It's just another survey that can be interpreted many ways! If it was 23K respondents I would have to think that's a very small number of simmers. It is the only anecdotal evidence we have. When Gartner puts out their Magic Quadrants clearly they haven't surveyed EVERY user of every platform but the numbers are representative of the industry... Have a Wonderful Day -Paul Solk
April 16, 20251 yr 3 minutes ago, tpete61 said: MSFS had 71% market share for the people that use Navigraph or have even ever heard of it! It's just another survey that can be interpreted many ways! If it was 23K respondents I would have to think that's a very small number of simmers. Yep. It's a fun discussion and at least we have the raw data behind it. It doesn't hurt that I think there is commonality between survey responses and avsim users.
April 16, 20251 yr 2 minutes ago, psolk said: When Gartner puts out their Magic Quadrants Don't even get me started on Gartner. 🙂
April 16, 20251 yr Author 3 minutes ago, BrammyH said: Don't even get me started on Gartner. 🙂 haha, it's all about the upper right quadrant! But to draw a parallel as silly as those MQ's are people make decisions based off of them 😞 Have a Wonderful Day -Paul Solk
April 16, 20251 yr 7 minutes ago, tpete61 said: If it was 23K respondents I would have to think that's a very small number of simmers. Every real simmers knows about Navigraph. System: I ASRock X670E | AMD 7800X3D | 64Gb DDR5 6000 | RTX 4090 | 2TB NVMe | Seasonic Vertex 1000W I LG Ultra Gear 34 UW I
April 16, 20251 yr Bottom line, 77% of the 23k users who responded to the Navigraph survey prefer the MSFS platform (with 2/3rds of those on 2020 primarily now, and 1/3 primarily on 2024). The majority of these respondents also consider aircraft authenticity/systems/FM fidelity the most important aspects of a sim aircraft. It's safe to say this is a good snapshot view of consumers who also buy high fidelity add-ons. *That* is the takeaway the major devs will take away from this (as they have done with previous Navigraph surveys). What this survey hopefully clarifies for them is whether to keep developing for both 2020 and 2024, or just 2024 only. Only time will tell about that, and especially based on how 2024 SUs evolve. At least we know now PMDG will make future new products for 2024 only. Let's see what the other devs end up socializing about their strategies. Len 1980s: Sublogic FS II on C64 ---> 1990s: Flight Unlimited I/II, MSFS 95/98 ---> 2000s/2010s: FS/X, P3D, XP ---> 2020+: MSFS Current system: i9 13900K, RTX 4090, 64GB DDR5 4800 RAM, 4TB NVMe SSD
April 16, 20251 yr Author 23 minutes ago, St Mawgan said: I'm still not sure why you quoted me then when I've never mentioned the Steam figures or any claims made by Jorg? As I mentioned, It's a common theme you further enforced which is that any data presented that shows 2024 in a poor light is useless and meaningless and immediately dismissed (as you did) I simply used Steam as another example and countered that with how the data is dismissed but what Jorg said is commonly referenced. I quoted you and then added commentary in response. I did not say "You said" I have reworded it to make it more clear. Edited April 16, 20251 yr by psolk Have a Wonderful Day -Paul Solk
April 16, 20251 yr 1 hour ago, B777ER said: Love the people in this thread trying their best with the mental gymnastics of downplaying the poor showing of MS2024. Keep trying cause it ain’t working. I'm happy you're happy with 2020. More bandwidth for me in 2024 🙂 It's like why would you want 24 to fail? If 24 fails there's a good chance 2020's servers would get shut down too. its hilarious we continue to have threads where you all just hate on 2024. It literally does nothing productive. If you want to contribute to the future of MSFS,make it better by submitting bug reports. I submitted a TON when 2020 came out and it improved. I've submitted about 30 so far in 2024 and it's also improving. | My Liveries | FAA ZMP | PPL ASEL | | Windows 11 | MSI Z690 Tomahawk | 12700K 4.7GHz | MSI RTX 4080 | 64GB 6000 MHz DDR5 | 500GB Samsung 860 Evo SSD | 2x 2TB Samsung 970 Evo M.2 | EVGA 850W Gold | Corsair 5000X | HP G2 (VR) / LG 27" 1440p |
April 16, 20251 yr Author 9 minutes ago, ryanbatc said: It's like why would you want 24 to fail? If 24 fails there's a good chance 2020's servers would get shut down too. This could not be more true. The potential detriment to our hobby if '24 were to fail or be pulled by some beancounter at MS would be massive. Some of us lived through it once and would never want to see that happen again. To root "against" '24 is shooting off your nose to spite your face. Have a Wonderful Day -Paul Solk
April 16, 20251 yr 34 minutes ago, lwt1971 said: At least we know now PMDG will make future new products for 2024 only. Let's see what the other devs end up socializing about their strategies. Well anyone who has followed PMDG for the last 2+ decades that this is a common theme for them. From FS2004 to FSX to PD3 1,2,3 to 64 bit P3D (now they don't get any support) to MSFS 2020 now 2024 and next it will be 2028. That is what they do abandon the old and move on to the new. Its about that new $$ nothing wrong there. Edited April 16, 20251 yr by JBDB-MD80
April 16, 20251 yr 7 minutes ago, psolk said: The potential detriment to our hobby if '24 were to fail or be pulled by some beancounter at MS would be massive What is also interesting is us "serious simmers" are a money loss for MS. I bought 2020 on sale for like $30. I paid $70 for 2024. No way I was gonna pay for more planes I'm not going to fly. I've made 3 marketplace transactions. I have 3,100 hours in 2020. 457 in 24. Meanwhile MS paid for all the band with I chew up. Which is why the MP still not being fully functional in 2024 is where Jorg's feet are probably really to the fire.
April 16, 20251 yr 4 hours ago, micstatic said: I'm actually surprised 23,000 people took the survey. I was expecting that number to be lower. But I'm happy to see it nonetheless It's actually a little lower than the prior year (23,736). In 2022 it was 25,400. The numbers are what I expected to see. I wasn't expecting a whole lot of growth to be honest. Serious simmers at this point would probably be more set in terms of which sim they prefer to use.
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