11 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

All the global Navies said similar things about Battleships when Aircraft Carriers first came on the scene...

It's only been just about 5 months since v2024 released. Remember what state v2020 was in at the time? I mean, we didn't get a study level airliner for almost two YEARS, right?

As I said earlier speaking for myself I was expecting them to learn from 2020 not repeat the debacle and their marketing led us to believe that was the case. It was not.

They "should" have done better the 2nd time around with lessons learned in my opinion and instead they made themselves look even more incompetent by breaking little tiny things like MP that were working prior.  

It's an apples-oranges comparison,  Aircraft carriers have been on the scene for years but you wouldn't expect the Next Gen Aircraft carriers to be sent to battle but not be able to carry aircraft or handle aircraft traffic because they aren't compatible...  Especially if you were sold a ship that would work with all the aircraft in the Navy...

Edited April 16, 20251 yr by psolk

1 hour ago, filou said:

I find you incredibly kind to FS24. I imagine it's a very, very laid-back hobby to be so happy with it.
Your perception is so different from mine that I feel like I'm jet-lagged between Paris and Sydney.
I personally think FS has disrespected me and abused my trust and the money I advanced them for the mediocre and declining results I'm getting with FS24. I don't find FS24 good at all: weather, clouds, Bing map, colors, etc. The only thing I like is the performance. The RTX 4090 helps a lot, of course. So, with this attitude and approach, they can all shut down for good: FS, XP, and P3D…
And just because simulation is my passion doesn't mean I feel obligated to be weak and swallow everything as if it were nothing, just because…
There are so many new possibilities to explore in the vast world of aviation.

You are an interesting guy, I'll say that much.  I wish you well!

15 minutes ago, BrammyH said:

I am going to spend some time tonight structuring the data better

Ermmmm, why? 

6 hours ago, kerosene31 said:

That's just it, we ultimately don't have numbers on how many people play MSFS.  Could 23k people be a decent sample size?  Possibly, but we don't know the size of the entire population.  

 

My guess is that these numbers are reasonable to draw conclusions off of, but polling biases can happen.  

 

Though I take it with a grain or two of salt (and some pepper!), MS has reported 15,000,000 unique MSFS users.

As Navigraph themselves assert, this data is only "truth" when measured against itself.

17 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Ermmmm, why? 

Because I like looking at data and slicing it different ways?

And dealing with these types of data keep my skills sharp.

4 hours ago, BrammyH said:

Yep. It's a fun discussion and at least we have the raw data behind it.

It doesn't hurt that I think there is commonality between survey responses and avsim users.

 

OTOH, it's like going to a Country Club to measure the popularity of Golf (or Lexus/Audi/Mercedes Benz).

Both user bases are inherently skewed. 

16 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Though I take it with a grain or two of salt (and some pepper!), MS has reported 15,000,000 unique MSFS users.

As Navigraph themselves assert, this data is only "truth" when measured against itself.

Which understanding how technology counts "users" for marketing and promotion means anyone who clicked on it once is now a unique user.  They may not have even gotten to the UI but the client session initiated a server connection ergo, user...

It is a GREAT testament to the interest in the hobby that 15M people, many of whom would have had it with Gamepass anyway "tried" it but useless as anything more than marketing fluff. 

In technology the same is achieved by seeding free licenses with a purchase and then counting them towards total market share.  Sort of like MS does in O365.  

The fact 15M people would be even interested enough to click is just validation of what we simmers have known for years, flightsim is incredible but as far as anything accurate, not even close.   At least the Navigraph data is tangible.  

 

In total transparency my company does the same thing and it's always funny when the Business Units show their growth and we are in a chat room applying a "reality filter" to their spin and making fun of them LOL. 

Edited April 16, 20251 yr by psolk

39 minutes ago, psolk said:

As I said earlier speaking for myself I was expecting them to learn from 2020 not repeat the debacle and their marketing led us to believe that was the case. It was not.

They "should" have done better the 2nd time around with lessons learned in my opinion and instead they made themselves look even more incompetent by breaking little tiny things like MP that were working prior.  

It's an apples-oranges comparison,  Aircraft carriers have been on the scene for years but you wouldn't expect the Next Gen Aircraft carriers to be sent to battle but not be able to carry aircraft or handle aircraft traffic because they aren't compatible...  Especially if you were sold a ship that would work with all the aircraft in the Navy...

These are good points and there's quite a bit upon which we agree.

In re Aircraft Carriers (at the risk of straying too far off-topic), one could argue the Royal Navy have done exactly that (well, NOT the Royal Navy, but rather the short sighted politicians who decide where the money goes).

2 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

These are good points and there's quite a bit upon which we agree.

In re Aircraft Carriers (at the risk of straying too far off-topic), one could argue the Royal Navy have done exactly that (well, NOT the Royal Navy, but rather the short sighted politicians who decide where the money goes).

TY sir.  At the end of the day I would guess 77% of us agree and all want the same thing it's just a matter of frustration with execution and delayed delivery...   

I guess our Navies have something in common, just Google US Navy ship delays...   Crazy the money that's wasted but yes, way O/T now LOL

18 minutes ago, BrammyH said:

Because I like looking at data and slicing it different ways?

And dealing with these types of data keep my skills sharp.

If you’re good with that kind of thing, wouldn’t the heatmap of sessions / hours be interesting to port on the Steam data? Understand Navigraph survey respondents aren’t your average Steam user, but could give an idea of roughly how many users are likely to be using per week as a percentage of the total?

2 minutes ago, scotchegg said:

If you’re good with that kind of thing, wouldn’t the heatmap of sessions / hours be interesting to port on the Steam data? Understand Navigraph survey respondents aren’t your average Steam user, but could give an idea of roughly how many users are likely to be using per week as a percentage of the total?

Is there a way to get the steam data out as a CSV file? I've never tried.

2 hours ago, filou said:

I personally think FS has disrespected me and abused my trust and the money

I was thinking same thing about real world aviation. I have a broken armrest. Here what I have been offered https://www.generation-global.com/products/c172-door-armrests-pull-handles?srsltid=AfmBOopPaGt8hVmJCS-qTv3jrhUM4FF0BNgsI-VZysEjSMReXvfiemRi   How much did you pay for 2024? 

2 hours ago, STK said:

I'm wondering how much this is influenced by those flying smaller non-jetliner types not being interested or aware of Navigraph. I make use of their services for flying light piston singles (and it's been great to have it integrated with such products as the PMS GTN 750), but is there some audience skewing going on that trends towards those who use Navigraph vs those who are content flying around in something like a Piper Cub just admiring the scenery? (Yes I'm aware that Navigraph has VFR maps). 

That’s a really good point.  I was wondering what might influence that figure, it’s a good theory.

2 hours ago, STK said:

I'm wondering how much this is influenced by those flying smaller non-jetliner types not being interested or aware of Navigraph. I make use of their services for flying light piston singles (and it's been great to have it integrated with such products as the PMS GTN 750), but is there some audience skewing going on that trends towards those who use Navigraph vs those who are content flying around in something like a Piper Cub just admiring the scenery? (Yes I'm aware that Navigraph has VFR maps). 

That’s a really good point.  I was wondering what might influence that figure, it’s a good theory.

1 hour ago, ryanbatc said:

You are an interesting guy, I'll say that much.  I wish you well!

I understand your shyness.