6 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

$190 per hour?? Are you sure that they are programmers, and not lawyers?

Haha … yes, lawyers cost me $550-$1000/hr … unfortunate that I know that but Software world can be cut throat.

When it comes to PMDG Rage, I think a lot of people just jump on the bandwagon - angry because others are, but not really knowing why they are themselves. I remember when the 737-600 was released, someone was screaming on YouTube that RSR was forcing ( yes, forcing ) people to buy the 600, even though they were waiting for the 700 and 800. Even when told that each was a stand-alone model, which people could pick by choice, he still blathered on about the 600 being a money grab. I get weary of it here - the constant, tedious moaning about the EFB, especially by one particular poster, was dire.

41 minutes ago, JonathanC said:

$1500/hr… (COBOL guys)

Not surprised. COBOL must be up there with Sumerian by now as far as currency goes.

On 5/6/2025 at 8:53 AM, JETPETER2 said:

Since the beginning of time I have been a paying customer to PMDG. I don't get free stuff from them. I have purchased everything they make and feel it is such an incredible value. Now they are extrememly sucessful and have paid salaried employees rightfully so. You need a team like they have to produce what they do. Pretty much perfection each and every time! You disagree? Feel the $77 for the 777 is unjust? Go ahead... build one yourself and see how that does.... in 30 years you may beat PMDG. Currently the Captainsim exists. Haters will hate. Jealousy is hard to hide. PMDG is here to stay keeps making the number one products possible, set the bar so high it's hard for others to get close. Some have now!! Fenix airbus' are the PMDG for that jet lineup. Glad for them!! But for Boeing PMDG wins and will keep winning ... the new lineup is impressive. For $77 at the grocery store last like what ??? 24 hours? Have kids? more like one day!

PMDG 777 will last years for $77 the gift that keeps on giving. I would be fine if it was $177.  Good thing they are in the masses now with X-box otherwise it would be $177.

Just my two cents. I'm exhausted by all the angry users.... but they're here to stay just as PMDG is as well.

PJ

 

 

I agree. I bought the 777-300 in MSFS 2020 so they own me a free model in 2024. Regardless, I went ahead and bought the 777-200 to help them out with cash flow. $77 is pretty cheap entertainment.

On 5/7/2025 at 6:34 AM, CO2Neutral said:

Simply divide hours used by cost to determine its value to you.  Thats what this price game boils down to.

Or costs divided by hours used. I get it down to 50 cents an hour really quickly.

Its quite simple. PMDG released the 777-200 in order to wrench as much cash as they can from those who are unable to wait. They've already got all their planes working in 2024 but haven't released them. Call it a business decision or whatever, but we have just got to suck it up.

Yea, some people need to be patient and wait, not that hard to do -- it is after all just an entertainment product. 

I bought the 200 because for airline ops I generally want to fly the same type of aircraft as the company uses on the route and the 200 is well represented in both United and American's fleets as well as BA, which I will occasionally fly. I also wanted to learn a little more about the engine variants and the differences. I am glad they released this first and I am happy with my purchase. So far I have flown it about 35 hours and spend a few more hours reading and researching so the cost per hour is already less than $2.00, and in a month it will be well under a dollar and in a year it will be pennies per hour. For me that is good value. I am careful with the aircraft I choose to purchase so I do not spend a lot of money on aircraft but the ones I purchase I focus on and fly a great deal. For example, I would not buy the LR because there are almost no route for it that I would fly, and it is one that will likely start being decommissioned soon. Same with the Freighter, I am highly unlikely to purchase it as I am not inclined toward freighter ops anymore.

As for PMDG, certainly I do not appreciate some of their approaches, but I really cannot fault them for their aircraft. They do not spend a lot of time on bells an whistles--the windows do not open, the lavatories and flight attendant consoles are not modeled, the texturing is good but not superior--but they do release stable, excellent performing aircraft with a high degree of systems fidelity, which is what I am interested in and looking for. Compare the 777 to the iniBuilds A350, which I think cost me more!  The 350 has had 9 updates in the past two months and issues are still being reported; the systems modeling seem to be largely scripted and the components and their interaction not actually modeled; the flight dynamics are a little questionable, with someone managing to take off from St. Barts!  I bought it and have been only disappointed in it; I have yet to even complete a flight in it. So I think it depends on what you are looking for in simulation.

4 hours ago, Paul K said:

When it comes to PMDG Rage, I think a lot of people just jump on the bandwagon - angry because others are, but not really knowing why they are themselves. I remember when the 737-600 was released, someone was screaming on YouTube that RSR was forcing ( yes, forcing ) people to buy the 600, even though they were waiting for the 700 and 800. Even when told that each was a stand-alone model, which people could pick by choice, he still blathered on about the 600 being a money grab. I get weary of it here - the constant, tedious moaning about the EFB, especially by one particular poster, was dire.

I agree it seems to have become fashionable, so some people do it just to be "in" with the Kool Kidz.

And it's the same stuff with the 777...

Randazzo just released an update vid last night in re the 777F releasing in 2-ish weeks, and the 300ER 2-ish weeks after that.

OH, MY...all that monopolistic coercion to force us into buying the 200ER in the next 2 weeks..! 🤣

IDK, Maybe since FS Labs isn't really popular in MSFS (late to the party and Fenix is much better dressed 😉), these people have transferred the manufactured outrage to PMDG...

Or alternating with iniBuilds over the A350 release.

Seems like some people just want to be angry, even if it's about their leisure time.

Kinda like football/futbol 😁

4 hours ago, andy1252 said:

COBOL must be up there with Sumerian by now as far as currency goes.

Haha .. COBOL was the 2nd language I learnt at university (circa 1980’s) … and to my surprise I got a job with a software company that was using COBOL for the PC (kid you not) … circa late 80’s.  Still being used in the mainframe world and many opportunities in conversion/migration projects.

We have 8,945 programming languages, about 8,940 too many.

 

3 hours ago, jarmstro said:

Its quite simple. PMDG released the 777-200 in order to wrench as much cash as they can from those who are unable to wait. They've already got all their planes working in 2024 but haven't released them. Call it a business decision or whatever, but we have just got to suck it up.

Meh...maybe, maybe not, but you're right: the end result is the same.

And those who lack self control will always pay more than they need to!

It could just be that since the 200ER was further back in the dev line, and the 300ER already a shipping product, that it was more time-effective to switch the 200ER over to just v2024 since they would have less pressure to "fix" it from v2020 owners.

While admittedly from the outside looking in, I get the impression that PMDG is extremely traditional in their production methodology, and this is why we question the outwardly confusing decisions they make.

E.g., Randazzo finally out and said that the 737 code base is just too old and clunky to bring forward to v2024.

Maybe, maybe not. Probably he wants to take lessons learned and re-facror the 737 or maybe they've already refactored their framework from the 777 dev and need to convert the 737 over for standardization, etc.

I mean, maybe it's just me, but the guy seems to think like a highly experienced airline Captain or something...

21 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

E.g., Randazzo finally out and said that the 737 code base is just too old and clunky to bring forward to v2024.

...and yet you have repeatedly, in this very thread, disputed with anyone suggesting the 737 was a port from P3D.  SMH.

2 minutes ago, rmeier said:

...and yet you have repeatedly, in this very thread, disputed with anyone suggesting the 737 was a port from P3D.  SMH.

Sometimes I think I get tired of typing, "tell me you know nothing about software development without telling me you know nothing about software development."

And then helpful souls like you come along and give me strength to do it again.😁

4 hours ago, jarmstro said:

Its quite simple. PMDG released the 777-200 in order to wrench as much cash as they can from those who are unable to wait. They've already got all their planes working in 2024 but haven't released them. Call it a business decision or whatever, but we have just got to suck it up.

You’re assuming everyone really wants the 300ER. That may be the case for some people. It may be the  case with you. It definitely is not for me. I wanted the 200ER, and had they released that first in 2020 (and now 2024), I never would have purchased the 300ER. Since I do own it for 2020, I will install it in 2024 when it comes out, but I don’t anticipate using anywhere near as much as I do the 200ER.

You can’t please everyone. Unless PMDG was in a position to release all their 777 variants simultaneously, some people are going to be very happy with the order they release them, and some will see it as a “money grab”. 

On 5/7/2025 at 5:25 PM, 737_800 said:

I just don't understand how a comparsion between P3D and MSFS works. P3D has a completly different pricing model due to licening-model that came with P3D. I tend to compare with FSX prices, because there was no additional cost involved for licening. Also the comparsion is not accurate, since P3D had much less customers compared to MSFS additional to the opening of a completly new market of XBOX users.

I keep on my hypothesis. If PMDG would lower their prices or offer expansions with a reasonable pricing modell or allow some discount for customers who own one variant, they would sell more and make more profit. It's not only the price in itself, it's more what you get for the price. They could charge what they charge now, if they come with relevant innovation that is accurate for flight sim in 2025, but their products feel like port-overs, which is sad.

I remember when I switched from PMDG 737 for FS2004 to PMDG 737 in FSX, that was revolutionary. Now..., we have Fenix and other devs for innovation which is also fine, because as long as I have something that keeps me happy I can avoid the other plane that I used to fly.

Profit is a difficult thing to judge because we do not know how much profit PMDG makes, they may make zero profit for all we know and with that there is no room to reduce prices. Cashflow is a bigger problem, especially for companies that don't release a lot of products. If you for example release 1 product per year in January then how do you pay your staff salaries in December? What if the product slips and is delayed by 3 months?

Pricing has to take this into account so PMDG may be expensive purely because they have to stretch their income across a whole year. They've released the 777-200ER and we'll get the LR at somepoint but then I seriously doubt that we'll see any release from PMDG until next year. We all know that most people buy new releases on day one so cashflow presumably drops like a stone after that, it's not a pleasant environment to manage.

Releasing products rapidly is the golden goose of flightsim development because it allows companies to reduce prices further without worrying about simply surviving. Companies like iniBuilds are winning this battle and they must be making an absolute fortune.

 

Edited May 11, 20251 yr by G MIDY

6 hours ago, G MIDY said:

Profit is a difficult thing to judge because we do not know how much profit PMDG makes, they may make zero profit for all we know and with that there is no room to reduce prices

I don't think PMDG's profit is anything to worry about.  Apart from the sales to the retail segment they have commercial contracts as well.   Randazzo hasn't been running  the longest surviving (and highly successful)  development company in this space for no reason.  With MSFS being reborn,  they now also have scale -  the likes of which they have never seen before - not to mention the Xbox platforms.  

No matter now frustrated you become with their methods, they deliver a super product time and time again

Edited May 11, 20251 yr by ErichB