19 hours ago, Sonosusto said:

Awesome! I cant wait to ignore these terrible product placements. This is seriously a waste of time, Asobo. Move the stranger things to a different product. Take that team you wasted and place them somewhere that helps with fixing the sim.

Hello @Sonosusto,

I won't try to convince you that you should install the Stranger Things add-on when it releases on December 9. If you don't like it, you don't like it, and there's nothing I can say that will change your mind about that. Not every component of MSFS or every new product announcement is going to appeal to everyone. Speaking only for myself, I have absolutely zero interest in flying tubeliners on VATSIM, but obviously many people enjoy that, so I'm happy for them when we release something that isn't for my personal tastes but makes the sim more exciting for somebody else. You don't have to like the Stranger Things DLC, and you don't have to install it. You can simply say, "This isn't my cup of tea," and then go about your day and continue simming just like you always have.

I will offer a rebuttal to you describing this content as "seriously a waste of time", though. Hopefully you can look at this from a big picture perspective rather than thinking that anything that doesn't cater only to your individual flight simming interests is unimportant to add to the MSFS ecosystem and therefore a waste of time. 

If you've been around flight simming for 30+ years, as I have been, then surely you'll realize that this hobby was until recently in a state of serious decline. The genre went from its heyday in the 1990s when there were multiple new civilian and military fight sims releasing every year to it's pre-2020 state where only a small handful of sim titles remained and the overall simmer playerbase was shrinking, not growing. Not enough new people were entering the hobby fast enough to replace those who left. Few new hardware peripherals were being released because there wasn't a sizeable enough market to entice companies to create new products. Software add-ons like third-party aircraft were regularly priced at USD $100 or more because a relatively small simmer market meant that developers couldn't count on high sales volume and therefore needed to maximize their revenue from a small-ish niche user community to stay in business.

Then along came MSFS (2020) and everything changed. Practically overnight the home flight sim hobby went from having maybe a few hundred thousand users globally to several million. We are currently very fortunate to be in a golden age of flight simming with so many exciting new hardware peripherals and software add-ons being announced every month because MSFS (2020) re-vitalized the genre and brought in millions of new players. 

Back in June of 2022, one of my job duties was to watch the Xbox & Bethesda Showcase and document the live viewer reaction to the Microsoft Flight Simulator 40th Anniversary Edition Announce Trailer. This showcase was primarily watched by fans of Xbox games, so when the MSFS trailer started airing, most of the viewer comments were things like "Booooring" or "Zzzzzzz" or "Who cares, show a real game."

BUT THEN...

...at 1:44 into the trailer, the screen fades to black and the iconic Halo theme music kicks in. The Pelican appears flying into the sunrise. Instantly the viewer reaction changed. The chat blew up and went ecstatic. The viewers were so excited to be able to fly the Pelican from the Halo series in MSFS. And if they were already Xbox/PC Game Pass subscribers, they could download it right then and there and start flying immediately without even having to buy the base sim. Meanwhile, I imagine many serious simmers were rolling their eyes and writing angry messages on AVSIM. "Why are they adding this science fiction nonsense to a flight simulator? What a waste of time!" Except it wasn't a waste of time. The Pelican instantly became one of the most-downloaded items from the Marketplace. Many, many people who otherwise had zero interest in flight sims were now suddenly trying MSFS for the first time. 

"So what," you're probably saying, "they're all console kiddie gamers with low attention spans. They'll get bored of MSFS within a day or two and then go back to playing Call of Duty or Fortnite." And yeah, for a lot of them that was certainly the case.

But not for all of them.

Some of those Halo fans who never had any interest in MSFS but downloaded it because they wanted to fly the Pelican then said to themselves, "Hey, since I've got this sim installed anyway, let's see what it's all about." And so they completed the in-sim flying lessons and tried some Free Flight sessions. Then they wanted to learn more so they started watching YouTube tutorial videos. Then they discovered the joy of simulated flight and the sense of accomplishment that comes when you learn something new and achieve mastery of a new aircraft or flying technique. And the next thing you know they're browsing Amazon to buy a Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo and supporting some of your favorite developers by purchasing add-on products from PMDG, Fenix, A2A, FlightFX, FSReborn, JustFlight, and more. Now -- thanks solely to this fake science fiction dropship -- we've converted non-simmers into simmers, and the number of people participating in the hobby we're all passionate about has grown larger.

And so it will be with Stranger Things. In this very thread you can read comments from multiple different AVSIM posters who have said some variation of, "I have no interest in Stranger Things myself, but my wife/son/daughter/etc. is a big fan of the series and this caught their attention." At a minimum, some of the simmers here are going to have a cool bonding moment with a member of their family who never showed any interest in flight sims before but now wants to see what this Stranger Things x MSFS crossover is all about. I'll even go a step further than that, though. I'll bet that somewhere in the world right now there's a teenager who has a future career as an airline captain or another job as as professional pilot ahead of them and doesn't even know it yet. They love Stranger Things, and trying out this release will spark an interest in flight simming and aviation that they didn't even know they had.

If the upcoming Stranger Things add-on doesn't interest you, don't download it. That's totally fine! But it's not a waste of time. 

Kind regards,

SeedyL, MSFS Community Manager

1 hour ago, Tuskin38 said:

Taog's logo is also on the partner splash screen in SU4.

Good catch 

Just think what comic books meant to us 50's kids.

dd

2 hours ago, kerosene31 said:

That's the big question.  All we know is Taog posted the announcement at the same time as MS on their Discord, so they are involved somehow (and of course there's a Huey in the video).  

I'd love an updated version of their Huey, but I don't know if that would be free.  I can't imagine Taog doing a dumbed down version either.  Their 2020 Huey works in 2024 so at the very least we might see that. 

It is kind of sad that one of the more realistic helicopters is getting lost on other discussions, but again, we don't know.  

 

I think they’d face a LOT of (understandable) backlash if a formerly paid addon suddenly gets given away for free, even if it’s only the v2020 version.

Unless MS has some kind of make good in mind. But that would get pretty complicated…

Tye choice of the Huey makes a lot of sense given the time frame (tho blackhawks were in the scene back then, too). 

anyhow, it’s definitely an interesting situation! 

1 hour ago, SeedyL said:

Hello @Sonosusto,

I won't try to convince you that you should install the Stranger Things add-on when it releases on December 9. If you don't like it, you don't like it, and there's nothing I can say that will change your mind about that. Not every component of MSFS or every new product announcement is going to appeal to everyone. Speaking only for myself, I have absolutely zero interest in flying tubeliners on VATSIM, but obviously many people enjoy that, so I'm happy for them when we release something that isn't for my personal tastes but makes the sim more exciting for somebody else. You don't have to like the Stranger Things DLC, and you don't have to install it. You can simply say, "This isn't my cup of tea," and then go about your day and continue simming just like you always have.

I will offer a rebuttal to you describing this content as "seriously a waste of time", though. Hopefully you can look at this from a big picture perspective rather than thinking that anything that doesn't cater only to your individual flight simming interests is unimportant to add to the MSFS ecosystem and therefore a waste of time. 

If you've been around flight simming for 30+ years, as I have been, then surely you'll realize that this hobby was until recently in a state of serious decline. The genre went from its heyday in the 1990s when there were multiple new civilian and military fight sims releasing every year to it's pre-2020 state where only a small handful of sim titles remained and the overall simmer playerbase was shrinking, not growing. Not enough new people were entering the hobby fast enough to replace those who left. Few new hardware peripherals were being released because there wasn't a sizeable enough market to entice companies to create new products. Software add-ons like third-party aircraft were regularly priced at USD $100 or more because a relatively small simmer market meant that developers couldn't count on high sales volume and therefore needed to maximize their revenue from a small-ish niche user community to stay in business.

Then along came MSFS (2020) and everything changed. Practically overnight the home flight sim hobby went from having maybe a few hundred thousand users globally to several million. We are currently very fortunate to be in a golden age of flight simming with so many exciting new hardware peripherals and software add-ons being announced every month because MSFS (2020) re-vitalized the genre and brought in millions of new players. 

Back in June of 2022, one of my job duties was to watch the Xbox & Bethesda Showcase and document the live viewer reaction to the Microsoft Flight Simulator 40th Anniversary Edition Announce Trailer. This showcase was primarily watched by fans of Xbox games, so when the MSFS trailer started airing, most of the viewer comments were things like "Booooring" or "Zzzzzzz" or "Who cares, show a real game."

BUT THEN...

...at 1:44 into the trailer, the screen fades to black and the iconic Halo theme music kicks in. The Pelican appears flying into the sunrise. Instantly the viewer reaction changed. The chat blew up and went ecstatic. The viewers were so excited to be able to fly the Pelican from the Halo series in MSFS. And if they were already Xbox/PC Game Pass subscribers, they could download it right then and there and start flying immediately without even having to buy the base sim. Meanwhile, I imagine many serious simmers were rolling their eyes and writing angry messages on AVSIM. "Why are they adding this science fiction nonsense to a flight simulator? What a waste of time!" Except it wasn't a waste of time. The Pelican instantly became one of the most-downloaded items from the Marketplace. Many, many people who otherwise had zero interest in flight sims were now suddenly trying MSFS for the first time. 

"So what," you're probably saying, "they're all console kiddie gamers with low attention spans. They'll get bored of MSFS within a day or two and then go back to playing Call of Duty or Fortnite." And yeah, for a lot of them that was certainly the case.

But not for all of them.

Some of those Halo fans who never had any interest in MSFS but downloaded it because they wanted to fly the Pelican then said to themselves, "Hey, since I've got this sim installed anyway, let's see what it's all about." And so they completed the in-sim flying lessons and tried some Free Flight sessions. Then they wanted to learn more so they started watching YouTube tutorial videos. Then they discovered the joy of simulated flight and the sense of accomplishment that comes when you learn something new and achieve mastery of a new aircraft or flying technique. And the next thing you know they're browsing Amazon to buy a Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo and supporting some of your favorite developers by purchasing add-on products from PMDG, Fenix, A2A, FlightFX, FSReborn, JustFlight, and more. Now -- thanks solely to this fake science fiction dropship -- we've converted non-simmers into simmers, and the number of people participating in the hobby we're all passionate about has grown larger.

And so it will be with Stranger Things. In this very thread you can read comments from multiple different AVSIM posters who have said some variation of, "I have no interest in Stranger Things myself, but my wife/son/daughter/etc. is a big fan of the series and this caught their attention." At a minimum, some of the simmers here are going to have a cool bonding moment with a member of their family who never showed any interest in flight sims before but now wants to see what this Stranger Things x MSFS crossover is all about. I'll even go a step further than that, though. I'll bet that somewhere in the world right now there's a teenager who has a future career as an airline captain or another job as as professional pilot ahead of them and doesn't even know it yet. They love Stranger Things, and trying out this release will spark an interest in flight simming and aviation that they didn't even know they had.

If the upcoming Stranger Things add-on doesn't interest you, don't download it. That's totally fine! But it's not a waste of time. 

Kind regards,

SeedyL, MSFS Community Manager

Fair point to defend a lot of added "stuff" into a simulator.

Here, I was thinking it was a simulator. Yes, I've also been into simulators for a long time. Yes, there was a decline and yes I see your point on gathering the most possible amount of people into it. Planes race? Yeah. I can see that. Top Gun? Yeah, I can see that. Added a cool plane with that. Those were cool. Dune was a little weird but oh well. But Stranger Things? In a simulator? Im a big fan of the show especially it's real early seasons but why in a simulator? 

You've singled me out and that's cool.

But a lot of people made a lot of valid points relating to weather, LOD issues, glitches, bugs, crashes, artifacts and random performance issues. Instead of those getting fixed as the number one priority....it was basically ignored and put towards the middle list. 

But yes, stranger things. 

The only thing "strange" is seeing a large company ignore glaring red flags, bugs etc but are more than happy to add in a show. You're here to defend them. I am being critical but I think it's fair. 

In case you're wondering, I have defended 2024 since release. Even outright advocated it and convincing others to hop on over to it. I fly in 2024 several times a week, several different planes, beta testing for Asobo since SU4b release. Heck, I have even defended the beta on this forum dozens of times. If you're thinking I'm only critical then you're wrong. I am merely critical of not fixing issues that have been since release but seeing other ideas added. From a testing, buying and loyal customer's point of view....I see it as a waste of time. Don't confuse me with other people on here when I've defended this sim (2024) for a loooong time. 

2 minutes ago, Sonosusto said:

Fair point to defend a lot of added "stuff" into a simulator.

Here, I was thinking it was a simulator. Yes, I've also been into simulators for a long time. Yes, there was a decline and yes I see your point on gathering the most possible amount of people into it. Planes race? Yeah. I can see that. Top Gun? Yeah, I can see that. Added a cool plane with that. Those were cool. Dune was a little weird but oh well. But Stranger Things? In a simulator? Im a big fan of the show especially it's real early seasons but why in a simulator? 

 

First off - it looks like it's a Huey with a Hawkins skin on it - admittedly we need confirmation. They aren't bringing Vecna into MSFS, unless he's the one flying it. To me that's pretty cool.

I think you're throwing a bit of a straw man with the issues list. You're ignoring the fact that we had non-stop patches since the beginning of the game's release and the focus has been on precisely the things you listed. Yes, they didn't quite get all of them, but it's better than at release. It's easy to point to things that are still wrong, but you have to look at hundreds upon hundreds of fixes that got implemented so far.

If we didn't have any updates for a year and suddenly they came out with Stranger Things, you'd be absolutely right, but the reality is proven different.

My point is - they can do this AND they can keep fixing bugs. That's exactly what's been going on.

And from what Jorg has said in the past, after SU4 the focus will slowly be switching to improvements and new features as well as critical fixes. So we should hopefully start seeing new things on the horizon that the community has been asking for ages.  

 

21 minutes ago, Sonosusto said:

But a lot of people made a lot of valid points relating to weather, LOD issues, glitches, bugs, crashes, artifacts and random performance issues. Instead of those getting fixed as the number one priority....it was basically ignored and put towards the middle list. 

But yes, stranger things. 

The only thing "strange" is seeing a large company ignore glaring red flags, bugs etc but are more than happy to add in a show. You're here to defend them. I am being critical but I think it's fair. 

They're not ignoring any of this stuff.

11 minutes ago, Georgleboui said:

First off - it looks like it's a Huey with a Hawkins skin on it - admittedly we need confirmation. They aren't bringing Vecna into MSFS, unless he's the one flying it. To me that's pretty cool.

I think you're throwing a bit of a straw man with the issues list. You're ignoring the fact that we had non-stop patches since the beginning of the game's release and the focus has been on precisely the things you listed. Yes, they didn't quite get all of them, but it's better than at release. It's easy to point to things that are still wrong, but you have to look at hundreds upon hundreds of fixes that got implemented so far.

If we didn't have any updates for a year and suddenly they came out with Stranger Things, you'd be absolutely right, but the reality is proven different.

My point is - they can do this AND they can keep fixing bugs. That's exactly what's been going on.

And from what Jorg has said in the past, after SU4 the focus will slowly be switching to improvements and new features as well as critical fixes. So we should hopefully start seeing new things on the horizon that the community has been asking for ages.  

 

Ok, that is a fair argument. Thank you for sharing your perspective on this. 

7 hours ago, SeedyL said:

Back in June of 2022, one of my job duties was to watch the Xbox & Bethesda Showcase and document the live viewer reaction to the Microsoft Flight Simulator 40th Anniversary Edition Announce Trailer. This showcase was primarily watched by fans of Xbox games, so when the MSFS trailer started airing, most of the viewer comments were things like "Booooring" or "Zzzzzzz" or "Who cares, show a real game."

BUT THEN...

...at 1:44 into the trailer, the screen fades to black and the iconic Halo theme music kicks in. The Pelican appears flying into the sunrise. Instantly the viewer reaction changed. The chat blew up and went ecstatic. The viewers were so excited to be able to fly the Pelican from the Halo series in MSFS. And if they were already Xbox/PC Game Pass subscribers, they could download it right then and there and start flying immediately without even having to buy the base sim. Meanwhile, I imagine many serious simmers were rolling their eyes and writing angry messages on AVSIM. "Why are they adding this science fiction nonsense to a flight simulator? What a waste of time!" Except it wasn't a waste of time. The Pelican instantly became one of the most-downloaded items from the Marketplace. Many, many people who otherwise had zero interest in flight sims were now suddenly trying MSFS for the first time. 

"So what," you're probably saying, "they're all console kiddie gamers with low attention spans. They'll get bored of MSFS within a day or two and then go back to playing Call of Duty or Fortnite." And yeah, for a lot of them that was certainly the case.

But not for all of them.

Some of those Halo fans who never had any interest in MSFS but downloaded it because they wanted to fly the Pelican then said to themselves, "Hey, since I've got this sim installed anyway, let's see what it's all about." And so they completed the in-sim flying lessons and tried some Free Flight sessions. Then they wanted to learn more so they started watching YouTube tutorial videos. Then they discovered the joy of simulated flight and the sense of accomplishment that comes when you learn something new and achieve mastery of a new aircraft or flying technique. And the next thing you know they're browsing Amazon to buy a Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo and supporting some of your favorite developers by purchasing add-on products from PMDG, Fenix, A2A, FlightFX, FSReborn, JustFlight, and more. Now -- thanks solely to this fake science fiction dropship -- we've converted non-simmers into simmers, and the number of people participating in the hobby we're all passionate about has grown larger.

And so it will be with Stranger Things. In this very thread you can read comments from multiple different AVSIM posters who have said some variation of, "I have no interest in Stranger Things myself, but my wife/son/daughter/etc. is a big fan of the series and this caught their attention." At a minimum, some of the simmers here are going to have a cool bonding moment with a member of their family who never showed any interest in flight sims before but now wants to see what this Stranger Things x MSFS crossover is all about. I'll even go a step further than that, though. I'll bet that somewhere in the world right now there's a teenager who has a future career as an airline captain or another job as as professional pilot ahead of them and doesn't even know it yet. They love Stranger Things, and trying out this release will spark an interest in flight simming and aviation that they didn't even know they had.

Thank you for explaining this Seedy!  I think I posted in this thread once or twice, but aside from the few posts I made, I haven't been all that active in this thread.  I have been mostly passively reading it though, and I have seen some comments from a real life pilot in this thread, who thinks he/she knows best how the MSFS team should run their business, but that real life pilot seems to have zero business sense (and for the record, I am not referring to Sonosusto, it's somebody else).

For those who don't know what Seedy just described, it's called a "Gateway Product" in business: https://watertight-thinking.com/2013/08/how-to-incorporate-a-gateway-product-to-win-more-business/

That is, you use your gateway product as a lead in, to get new customers into your ecosystem of products.  Seedy just described an example of the gateway product with the Stranger Things add-on.

FYI, the Stranger Things add-on is good for MSFS for 2 reasons:

1. As Seedy mentioned, it can end up as a gateway product, which turns a casual user, into a hard core flight simmer.  

2. It's very possible that the MSFS team was paid to do The Stranger Things add-on.  The money earned by the MSFS team when they are paid to do promotions like this, is likely reinvested into MSFS.

If you want to grow the userbase of MSFS, and accumulate more "hard core simmers," this is one way you do it.

I think this bunch of misérables gets pleasure from making people mad

A Les Misérables tie-in, now we’re talking.

3 hours ago, Georgleboui said:

A Les Misérables tie-in, now we’re talking.

Can you hear the people sing?

On 12/4/2025 at 10:00 PM, Tuskin38 said:

At least we're apparently getting a Bell 205 out of it.

If its on the level of the EC-135 they released, i dont think we should even bother...

Apparently the Huey is free and 2024 native.  Must be an update of Taog's 2020 one but we'll probably need to try it out and see.